thanks :)

its on fire here today, not sure where to turn without running in to controversial threads........

Who's to say he's abandoning his race. Maybe he's not in peak form and only wants to participate and his participation effort lines up with her race effort? If this sorry of thing is a dq worthy crisis then 1/3 of the pack will be dq'd between friends doing it with friends for fun to the last stragglers coming down with an entourage cheering. Can two people from different Age groups pace off each other without being dq'd since they are not directly competing for a KQ?

There seems to be a general consensus here that this is wrong and I agree. The fact is, I've paced off people in every race I've ever done. The question becomes how do you write the rule to allow what we all do and eliminate what the OP is talking about. Mark Allen paced off Dave Scott all day in the Iron War.

statistically, honestly, what are the odds that husband and wife rock up and she's in "on the cusp of qualifying form" and he's in "amazingly just enough form to be on the cusp of his wifes qualifying form"

the difference between taking a slot or depriving someone of a slot because you effectively worked as a team to the finish and "individual effort" is the word "INDIVIDUAL"..........

seriously people, if you want to work as a team - do a relay, go bowling, if you want to qualify off the back of your husband, partner, team mate, knock yourself out but you might as well "do a julie" (search form to right for anyone that has any questions on "doing a JULIE") OR you can refer back to my earlier post about a man called Lionel and his most recent racing strategy........

This brings up an interesting point. There really are two "events" going on at the same time amongst the age groupers at an IM. The first is the actual race. People who want to stand on the podium, and even get a Kona slot. These people are racing for something more than just being there for the event.

The other event is a participatory one, where people are just trying to cross the finish line. I can guarantee you that if you polled every person there, you would get a definitive answer which camp he or she is in. The people in the race camp perhaps should be under a slightly more strict interpretation of the rules. Pacing someone to a Kona slot is different than pacing someone to a finish. I am not at all advocating that we should have separate classes of starters or somehow formally codifying that in the rules, but the reality is that one is much worse than the other.

If your compete within the rules I don't see anything wrong with it.

From what you appear to be describing...him swimming with you, riding outside the draft zone and then running side by side, I don't see any rule infractions.

I say go for it.

jaretj

Also take a little EPO, as you won't get caught for that (stop 2 weeks before the race).

All forms of cheating are a sign of weakness. Why can you not pace yourself? Do you not have a Garmin? Why does some big strong man need to tell you how fast to run and bike?

wolfpackTri

Hi there Kitty, welcome to the forum. I'll try to answer your question constructively: what you suggest may not be against the letter of the rule but it is certainly against the spirit of the rule. This is meant to be an individual sport. I certainly wouldn't use "others are doing it" as justification.

Ask yourself this.

if you ran your own race, and were beaten to a kona spot by someone being purposely pace the entire race, how would you feel? Especially if you lost your spot by a matter of seconds.

I lost a spot by less than 30 secs couple of years ago, to someone being paced by someone riding a bike beside them for most of the run. it doesn't feel good.

this is freaking hilarious.

read dev paul's response, in post 17. or the lionel sanders thread, linked to somewhere in here. or my article about the lionel sanders case. it's about whether you are racing for your highest possible place or whether you've abandoned the ambition to do so in order to help another to his or her best possible place. neither mark nor dave had abandoned his ambition for his best possible place. this is embedded in ironman's rules for pros. it is implicit in both the USAT rules posted here and ironman's AG rules.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

*whew*....was hoping somebody would appreciate it!!

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

The problem with the pacing rule is unless someone admits to it, or it's extremely blatant, you just can't prove it. I think they have to have the rule on the books but they will (and should) have a hard time enforcing it. If you take it too literally then if you bike or run behind anyone at all then you are being paced. If that said person is not in the race, then it's a no brainer as it's outside assistance. If it's someone else in the race, what gives you the right to say how fast they should or shouldn't run/bike? It's way to open ended.

Bring it to the attention of the race director. Surely he/she passed or was passed by some people and they could serve as witnesses.

I was curious if it is legal since it clearly isn't enforced, I have seen it happen too many times.

What was the outcome?

She qualified and raced in Koba this year. The other AG women never logged a protest as it would have been a waste of time. He literally pushed her up a hill!

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

How exactly do you plan to "prove" pacing? Should there be a rule that you can't be near the same person/people on course for more than a set number of minutes?

It appears to be technically illegal, yet rarely enforced. If I saw you and your husband employing this tactic I would think less of you and I would not want to share in any part of your triathlon life. You decide.

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

I understand the distinction but that distinction isn't addressed in the rules. I just question if it's fair or practical to enforce an implicit rule.

In the 2000's ITU LD world's Italy's Alessandro Vannacci paced Daniela Locarno on the bike to finish 3rd Elite Women (!); I don't recall any blame about that

Regardless of whether this is technically right or wrong (arguments already presented) the hallmark *generally* of people that I see who KQ is the ability to pace and execute correctly on the day….and day in day out through out the year.

Basically I am struggling to figure out why you think this is a good idea, if your husband is faster but is willing to sacrifice his race for you…how do you know he is a better athlete in terms of execution? I am usually faster than my SO but she is a much better athlete.

You are (based on a few sentences above) missing the last piece of the puzzle…IE picking up pennies in terms of nailing the race properly. You need to HTFU and work on your internal clock and RPE…or if you are completely lacking the desire to execute correctly then buy a PM and have it do that job for you during the race.

Maurice

It's still wrong.

"I understand the distinction but that distinction isn't addressed in the rules. I just question if it's fair or practical to enforce an implicit rule."

it's an explicit rule. unauthorized assistance. it formally bans pacing. implicit in this is the difference between two people running alongside each other who are both in the heat of battle, versus one person not really in the heat of battle, simply in the race for the purpose of helping another to a high place.

the pro rules take what is already in the rules and further amplifies it. further explains it. but it's in the rules, has always been in the rules, and triathlon's original generation of racers never faced the need to explain what unfair looks like. today we need to further codify unfair because a significant subset of the current generation of triathletes doesn't know unfair on its face, and has to have it explained.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman