No. And I never implied that.

I am saying the following:

-There is a rule system which doesn't exist in any other endurance event
-That rule system is not able to be enforced without knowing intent "In the moment".
-Because that rule system is not fully enforceable, people with no integrity or self-respect are given an advantage.
*This is what this thread is about.

So this leaves two end-game solutions:
1) Enforce the rules fully so that people can not break the rule and succeed.
2) Drop the rule because it may not be a relevant rule in the first place.

In order to do #1 in a fair manner, it must apply across the board to continue being a fair race.
In order to do #2, you match what every other endurance event does, but it changes the nature of the race.

I prefer #2. That is my point.

It was an honest question, not a gotcha question. I am glad you do not like that it is that way - we are in agreement.

We just appear to disagree on our preferred solution. I would rather have a rule that holds up the sport as it should be, even if it cannot be perfectly enforced and may thereby give those willing to break it an opportunity to gain an unfair advantage over their competitors. Doping rules are this way. Hell, even drafting rules, with their supposed objectivity, are sometimes this way. I am certain there are other rules that suffer from this same imperfection.

I believe that you should write the rules as a model for the way the sport should be contested (I know should is a loaded word). I believe that you write the rules as though every competitor is perfectly ethical and will make knowing and following the rules to the letter their number one priority when they show up to race. You write the rules for a perfect race contested by perfect people. Then, because you know that it is a sport contested by human beings with all their various flaws, you endeavor to educate competitors on the rules as much as you can and to enforce the rules as best you can to make it as fair as you can.

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The plural of anecdote is not data. :-)
- Andrew Coggan

WOW....this post gets the "Stupidist of the Year" award.

Not so harsh, Elwood.

She was unclear on the rules (and explained further down the thread that this was because she had seen others do it without penalty - which is a legit reason to be confused), asked an honest question, listened to the feedback and people's reasoning, and then explained that she did not want to do anything against the rules and that she would not employ the tactic now that she had clarity. I commend her for seeking out clarity on a rule she was legitimately unsure about and then committing not to break it even though some of her competitors were doing so without consequence.

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The plural of anecdote is not data. :-)
- Andrew Coggan

If someone came to triathlon via running I can see how they would not know.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

If someone came to triathlon via running I can see how they would not know.

Indeed - they have designated Pace-Bunnies, kitted out in special sponsors gear and often carrying a sign, in larger 1/2 and full marathons that run X-Pace. Just jump in and tag along. I note that in some marathons, the biggest groups, are the "Boston Qualifying" paces/times! :)


Why not in triathlon? :)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

That is slightly different scenario since the pacers are announced and clearly marked. It isn't an advantage for any one specific person over another person.

But, I agree, if you come from running or cycling you would assume this is perfectly fine arrangement to have someone to race with.

Correct, but you're allowed to have private pacers as well.

Of course, that was my second comment in the post above :)

Woohaa…Flecks coming out of retirement!!!!!!!!!


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I like the plan. I want Fleck to show up at an IM first though. then we can worry about accusing him of pacing his wife. My prediction is his wife goes 10 hours flat and Fleck ends up in 11:30-12 hours. Wife comes back to the finish line after a shower, steak, beer and desert asking him what happened, the answer to which is "I got older!!!"

Also women start after men in Kona, so Mrs, Fleck would blow by around Waikaloa or Kawaihai and say, "are you bonking or are you just slow?" (not sure if this should go in pink or not....what does Mrs. Fleck think)?