I appreciate your post. I wish things were different. I am not a fan of sitting on my trainer doing 5 hour Ironman training rides inside. At least I have the gravel roads and mountain bike trails to supplement my training.

I felt compelled to say something about the riding in Vermont because this person's view is not shared by many here (of course we are all entitled to our own opinions). So many other triathletes share my feelings about road safety in Vermont. And the tragic incidents I mentioned above were not some random events that happened over a 20 year time period. We had several road cycling deaths in Vermont within a small time frame of a few years when I was training for Ironmans in Chittenden County Vermont.

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Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

I’ll be a homer for NJ. Really. Try Morristown, NJ

1.Great cycling roads and routes. Road conditions must be really good. - Good roads and mostly courteous drivers. Gravel and MTB very nearby.

2. Swimming pools - At least 3 Ys with 2 pools each very nearby. Lakes and the shore for OWS.

3.Variety running routes - trails, parks, neighborhoods

4.Good vibe town and culture. - check.

5. Road safety obviously - actually people around here are generally Ok about bikes on the road as long as we are not ourselves being a-holes.

6.Nice people - generally yes and several running, tri, and cycling clubs locally.

Pricey? That’s relative. We are, as a state, functionally bankrupt but it is what it is.

As the most densely populated state and and a well-to-do area employment, athletic, cultural, and participatory sport opportunities abound.

Winters can be mild but for every snowstorm we seem to get we get a share of above freezing days (40s F) to compensate. A good winter we can have highs in the 40s and spring springing by the end of March.

I know you said you meant greenville SC and not Greensboro NC yet Greensboro would not be all that bad.

There are several pools/masters programs, lots of trails and roads to run, pretty solid tri scene, once you get out of the city the roads are pretty quiet, lots of racing within a 2h drive in every direction and big races within 4h of driving. If you lived in GSO you could race 3-4x within 20 minutes of city center throughout the summer.

NC has everything. Skiing in the winter in the western part of the state and the beaches in the eastern part of the state, tons of kayaking, lakes, mtn biking, hiking, rock climbing, and other outdoor activities. Good BBQ, a great craft beer scene, a rapidly growing (and imo quite good) whiskey scene, lots of decent riding once you get out of town (I've spent lots of time in the Asheville, Greensboro/High Point/Winston Salem (aka the Triad) & Raleigh (RDU) area training.)

There is a dedicated tri store in the area, several world class universities among the many, many universities & colleges in NC and the cost of living is reasonable. Winters have their bad days yet you'll be able to ride outside year round, just not every day year round. Summers can be humid and I get tired of sweating come September every summer I'm in NC. Yet you can train outside at lunch every day in the summer where as in Tucson you really need to be done riding & running by about 1030, maybe a bit earlier. The sunshine isn't nearly as intense in NC. Their summer sun is ~= to how intense the winter sun is in Tucson.

Housing prices have gone bonkers this past 12 mo in NC, at least the area I check. I've seen some neighborhoods go up $25k in 12mo in the RDU area.

Life moves slower in the Triad area and imo it's where the country meets the city in NC. Yet it has a lot of the conveniences of a bigger metro area without the costs often associated with a larger area.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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I'm in Illinois. Let's race towards bankruptcy. I think we've got you beat, but you are #1 in property taxes, which is an advantaged towards destruction.

We're a measly #2. Property taxes range from 2% of house value up to 7% in certain areas so for a $500k home somewhere between $10,000 and $70,000 a year with an average probably being $15,000 for that home.

Btw I wouldn't recommend Illinois for anything except for craft beer as the Chicagoland beer scene is innovative and kicking butt.

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Swim - Bike - Run the rest is just clothing changes.

Hah. I think it's because EVERYONE knows that Norcal SF Bay or Los Angeles or San Diego and most of the places in between the coast are awesome places to train year round - but come with insane $$$$ housing costs and often some real tradeoffs (traffic, density.)

Even on these boards, I bet it's disproportionately tilted toward more posters from CA and the Bay area (most well frequented forums seem to attract the online-comfortable crowd in SF Bay area, to be fair.)

Riding here in CA is year-round, for real. I'll be wearing shorts on a 1PM ride in the first two weeks of January - it'll be cool/cold, but sunny and good for riding.

If it weren't for the money/housing issue, I think CA would actually top the list in the US for true, year-round triathlon training and an active tri-endurance community. There are better places for various things at various times of the year, but CA is probably the best averaged year-round, if you can afford it.

Hey Brian. Yea maybe I actually had meant Greensboro haha. Not entirely sure. Thank you so much for this info. Wow an abundance of information. I am definitely going to have to come and check out the “triad” as you called it. Never heard of that term.

That sounds great as well from a cultural point of view and sounds like lots going on and a vibey place to be situated. Once again thank you and hopefully if I’m in the area next year in the beginning of the year might have to catch a bike ride.

I think NJ will, in the near future, reap the whirlwind of its fiscal profligacy as a result of Covid because Covid accelerated the acceptance of work-from-anywhere.

NJ is underrated and has so many great amenities but they come with really high income taxes.

Anecdotally, the number of people I know who have recently become (~last 18 months) 181 day residents of no-income-tax FL or other low tax states is amazing. Warm weathering here with a tax home somewhere else is a winning move.

holly lawrence would make riding anywhere seem amazing! ::swoon::

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

Well HP/GSO/WS wouldn't be the epitome of cultural, this is more the area where the country meets the city. You'll have more to do in the RDU area as far as entertainment, going out etc.

Typically I'm in NC in the summers and would love to catch a ride w/you. Also I'm in Tucson during the winters so if you want to catch a ride here lmk.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I live in Southern NH and have lived in the area north of Boston my whole life with the exception of Colorado for a few years. I think it's a great area for training. I'm in Hampstead. I'm 20 mins from 2 pools and in my town are 2 smaller lakes I can swim (town beaches). Run and ride right out my door but I'm about 15 min drive from a rail trail that is great for running if needed. Lots of schools with tracks. I can do a 30-40 mile ride with only 1 stop light and very little traffic on side roads. Good elevation on rides, just cruising around probably 750-1000' gain per every 15 miles. Winters suck but it is what it is. There are a couple tri clubs around, I haven't been active in any but you see them around quite a bit.

I know we have had some dialogue about the risks of riding in outdoors and for me I put it into the category of humans have a tendency to over react to risks that are actually quite small. Its really hard to put it in perspective if you know of someone personally who has been hit or killed, but the data shows there is no increased of cycling on roads today than other times, in fact there are less deaths on bicycles today than there were in the 70s.

Not to thread drift but a different analogy would be that people buy guns for home protection, even though statistics show you are at a lower risk of dying in a violent home invasion by a stranger than you are by being killed by your lawn mower. People over react to small risk probabilities. We all perceive risks differently.

I live in central - northern NH (near Plymouth) and here are the pros and cons of our area for tri lifestyle considerations:

Pros:

• Great road riding in all directions, with choices of riding mountains or flats, very safe from a traffic standpoint right out your door
• Great Mountain biking, truly epic areas where you can do miles and miles of flow trails, rake and ride, MTB parks
• Hiking and trail running, White Mountain hikes within 10 minutes of home
• Gravel galore, not as much as VT but NH has way better paved road riding
• Top notch nordic ski community with 3 big nordic areas and lots of former Olympians / expertise in the area
• 3 Ice arenas with plenty of ice time for skating and pick up hockey
• Incredible OWS, clear cool lakes where you can see down 30 feet
• Rock and Ice climbing galore within 15 minutes from home
• 3 Alpine ski areas within 20 minutes of Plymouth
• NH has no sales tax, no income tax, and property tax is town dependent and can be very affordable, so if you have a high income and live in a more modest house you will have 15-25% more discretionary income than any other place you could live
• Small college town with places to eat
• Cool temps and long days in the summer, the best summer weather in the US as far as I am concerned

Cons:

• You have to do a winter sport, which for me is Nordic but it would be hard if you don't have one
• Riding is indoors from Dec- through end of March (this is why you must ski)
• November and April are the worst months, November has cold but little daylight and snow, April switches from winter to spring weekly and can be wet and muddy in the woods
• We only have two kind-of sad pools and due to energy costs and lack of county governments its not probable that any more will be built
• There are triathletes around, but I would not say its a huge community, but there are people to workout with lots of athletic people but all doing different sports
• Housing is expensive ish and there is no inventory now anyway because so many people moved here during covid

I cant stand the heat so for me I would rather live somewhere with a cold winter than a super hot summer, but we all have personal preferences.

Yep, we've covered road cycling safety on ST many times. Here is an article that hits home literally. I was living outside of Burlington Vermont during this time frame where we had multiple cycling fatalities while I was trying to train for Ironmans. It was really distressing. My husband and I would do our long rides every Saturday and my biggest fear was not dying myself but my husband getting killed and me having to live a life w/o him. One woman lost her husband while both were cycling around the Middlebury area. I found that so sad and upsetting. Sometimes I would feel sick to my stomach with worry when we would get up at 4am to get on the roads to have a few hours of peace before all the assholes got out onto the roads. And I do agree this fear is not healthy and can make one feel much less safe than reality. But again, it is like playing Russian roulette with your life. Those cyclists who got hit outside of Houston just recently (a current thread here on ST that has been a hot topic) probably thought they were safe riding on their normal training roads.

Then a few years after this article a few more cycling deaths occurred in my old area. Maybe statistically speaking I'm still probably less safer mowing my lawn, but at least I have some control over my fate as opposed to some random idiot in a big car/truck who purposely or accidentally runs me over.

I don't know if it's because I'm female, but when I have been alone on my bike, I've had some strange, scary encounters but that is a conversation for another thread. I feel like I've derailed this thread a bit already.

I will say I've cycled in NH many times and have found drivers there to be a bit better compared to over the border here in VT. The roads are much nicer too generally speaking. Your mountains are prettier too :-)

I'm just glad I have the gravel roads and nice mountain biking. I'm actually now closer to the Kingdom Trails and the Craftbury Outdoor Center. It's a paradise for outdoor adventures here in the NEK of VT. But I would not recommend it for anyone looking for a triathlon scene. I'm definitely the only Ironman athlete I know of in my area. I have to drive far to get to a pool. And the Burlington area pools are not nice in my opinion. One actually just closed and that was where I swam with the masters when I was living in the Burlington area.

And I totally agree April and November can be rough in Northern New England in regards to weather and training.

Sharp Increase in Vermont Bicycle Fatalities – Bike New England

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Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

I find this interesting. I'd understand not wanting to live in a place where the dominant politics are the opposite of yours - but turning down a paid speaking gig? Even deep-red states like Utah have something like 35-40% of the population that are liberal - and states like California or NY have similar percentages that are conservative. The point being, that there are vast numbers of people that live in any state that are unhappy with the dominant political group, and that may be a receptive audience if your speaking gig relates to politics in any way.

"You'll have more to do in the RDU area as far as entertainment, going out etc."
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That sort of depends what you are interested in. For example, in WS we have the School of the Arts which is the only college in the country to be in the top ten in filmmaking, set and design, ballet, drama, AND music (I think); and, they have more shows than there are days in the year. Not sure you could possibly have more/better entertainment than that if those areas appeal to you.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

No, not a political talk. Better to move this to the LR, if you are really interested. I can't effect change in other states by voting there (because I can't). But I can withhold my involvement there, if I am, for example, choosing not to spend $ in that state/supporting their economy or choosing not to carry out actions that might promote their success.

I know it wont convince you but what happens in 1-2 years doesn't make a trend. The article said no fatalities since 2005, then a couple of what sound like quirky abnormal bad years, what has happened since? Whats a longer timeline look like? What is the normal pattern? That article was not very scientific or valid in the way it presented the data, just a journalistic piece. I can agree to disagree with you.

I've heard Noosa's nice

Not quite USA though

1.Great cycling roads and routes. Road conditions must be really good.
2. Swimming pools.
3.Variety running routes.
4.Good vibe town and culture.
5. Road safety obviously.
6.Nice people.

__________

The most common answers you'll hear, in my opinion, are southern California, Boulder CO, or Tucson, AZ. I agree with what you've witnessed re: Tucson. My wife is from Boulder and we've spent a lot of time there. The area is incredibly expensive in and around Boulder proper, but you could still live 20 - 40min outside of town.


My wife and I just moved after living in Salt Lake City, Utah for four years (neither of us is Mormon / LDS) and it is by far my favorite place I've lived. Absolutely incredible cycling (both road and MTB). For road cycling, look up the Alpine Loop, Big Cottonwood Canyon, and Little Cottonwood Canyon. For MTB, look up the Wasatch Crest as a classic example. There's amazing running including beautiful trail running singletrack. It's high desert weather that's consistently very sunny.


Downsides - like many places, buying a home is becoming prohibitively expensive close to SLC. I have never met a Mormon that I haven't liked, but LDS culture (though this is changing) permeates the area and is a legitimate consideration. Still, that means half your neighbors will stop to help you fix a flat tire, hand your suitcase up to you on a tram, or are generally nice and super friendly.


If you want to ride during the winter you can drop down to Moab or St George in the South.


I would happily retire there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCNl-PJXAlI&ab_channel=VisitUtah


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKn0wOk4R68&t=518s&ab_channel=BKXC

I'm a numbers person myself who analyzes data for a living so I get your point. But for me it's very real and has happened too close to home. And yes, we can agree to disagree :-)

Just be glad you live in NH and not VT. Aside from cycling deaths, the harassment and intimidation I've experienced on the roads from cars/trucks has been bad enough to keep me inside on the trainer or on our quiet gravel roads. I dealt with bad behavior from the 1990s to 2019 (then finally got off the paved roads). And I'm a super courteous rider, staying close to the right side, always single file with another rider or two, obeying all traffic laws, stopping at stop signs, doing every thing possible to not provoke any anger or annoyance from drivers. Anyhoo, digressing again.

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Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

Are we comparing apples to apples?


The early 1970s saw a huge increase in bicycle commuting by inexperienced riders because of the energy crises.

I just dug up this old nugget of a thread I started back in 2015 when I was laid up with my first stress fracture (only one so far knock on wood!)

Funny looking back and seeing what was important to us over 6 years ago. Lots of good recommendations on this one that might still be relevant today.

Best places to live for triathletes: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

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Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

Boulder turned into very expensive town with parks overrun by "people experiencing homeless" that run bike chopshops right there. Just go a bit north to Niwot (very small, very expensive) or Longmont. All the best bike roads for road cycling is as far from Longmont as from Boulder. Ironman 70.3 Boulder bike course is more Longmont than Boulder really.

Or go further north - Loveland and Fort Collins. FoCo is especially nice – better downtown than Boulder, more restaurants, much better city cycling network, lots of good roads for road cycling, gravel cycling. Big Horsetooth Reservoir where you can OWS. Gyms with swimming pools.

I would not live in Malibu, but the Santa Monica area is great for cycling. Easy access to the coast/climbing routes, 2 swimming pools, great weather, a huge cycling community, etc. I live in the Burbank area which is inland, but we also have a fantastic nature preserve next us, tons of mountains, 2 swimming pools, mostly ok roads, bike trails that are being expanded/extended for the Olympics in 2028. The cost of living here is high and the politics are not... for everyone. But nonetheless this is a great place for the fitness oriented lifestyle.

PS - I should add that if you're into hiking, the LA area is absolutely top notch.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Well... In Sedona proper, and the nearby towns (Village of Oak Creek & Cottonwood), the MTB and Gravel riding is probably better than the road cycling. The road routes we have are fine, but there just aren't all that many of them. I ride with a local cycling group when I'm there. A decent amount of repetition. Not sure the local area is optimal if you were just road cycling.

That being said, Sedona is not that far from Flagstaff, where there's lots of good road cycling (that is, spring/summer/fall - not so good in the cold/snowy winters there). And, in the winter, you're not all that far from the Phoenix area, where there's also lots of good weather/riding in the winter (as someone else here noted in their post about splitting time between Phoenix and Flagstaff). And, beyond that, Tucson is still doable for further riding.

Lots of great places to run, especially if you are open to trail running work. And the Sedona Community Pool is a spectacular location, with lots of swim times available under their Masters program.

Sedona is at about 4,500 ft. That seems to be just below the line where snow comes. In a typical winter, Sedona gets a dusting of snow a few times. And, in most cases, it's melted off same day or next day. Unlike Flagstaff, which is only an hour away (but is at about 7,000 ft) -- lots of snow in Flag.

I ride with a local road cycling group when in Sedona. They have rides 3 days/wk. They're spoiled, and when the forecast predicts rain or snow, folks stay home. I can probably count on one hand how many times over the winter that rides were cancelled. Temps can be cool, but it's generally sunny. You might need a layer or two at the start of the ride, but then tuck the gear away before the ride is done.

We've discovered that in Sedona the air temp feels about 10 degrees warmer than in Seattle (or Bellingham) due to the lack of humidity and the consistent sunshine. 55 degrees in Sedona at mid-day can be "shorts weather"...