The "tongue in cheek" thing often goes 2 ways actually

Ok, I have not read this thread (cause I have stuff to do today, I'll try to weed through it later) but I wanted to respond.

First, there are the haves and have nots in pro triathlon. I would go as far to say 5% are haves 95% are have nots. Maybe its not quite that bad. But, I would define a have as an athlete who makes an average American living wage, ie. something like $30k a year. I am a have not.

Yes, triathletes make nowhere near what other pro athletes make. That said, let's not even consider the "major sports" (NBA, NFL, MLB, Nascar, NHL). Just considering other similar sized sports (action sports, US cycling, perhaps running, etc) triathlon has a few issues:

1. It's difficult to sell tickets for spectating. Thus we don't have a "stadium" per se so we loose the centralized marketing venue. Hell I was at a Broncos game this weekend, everything is sponsored, the scoreboard, the replays, the cheerleaders, even the cheers (there's this Go, Go, GO, GOOO! cheer thing they do, brought to you by the GO auto dealers of Denver). When we loose the centralization we loose many opportunites to get outside the industry. But, one could argue that our lack of these things could open us up to other opportunities that centralized sports don't have. This is something we have not explored.
2. Carrying on from #1 we need to get outside the industry. We can't rely on bike, shoe, and wetsuit companies for title sponsorship. We need to see the Subway's, Starbucks, Target's, and so on getting into our sport. We see this more in Europe then the US, like the Commerzbanc team etc. Convincing these non-endemic companies of triathlons value and potential is the trick.
3. Which brings us to media. Triathlon isn't actually that small. There are around 130,000 licensed athletes, probably another 100,000+ non-licensed participants, and in all about 1 million athletes (foriegn and domestic) competing in the US each year. That's not terrible. But we only have one (maybe 1.5) magazine covering Triathlon. We have TV coverage but it's shotty, and burdened with human interest stories, which love em or hate em take away from the coverage of the pro race. It will be interesting to see how the progression of online coverage effects things, but the problem there is that is directed at the "enthusiast" where as network TV is more of a catch all. But, the fact is we need more TV time. Look at the little rubber people on the X-Games with their Gillette, and Target stickers on their gear. Hell, half of 'em don't even shave yet but they're hawkin Gillette. That is the trick and where the real sponsorship dollars are.
   
4. Last (for now, I could go on) we need to get away from the dueling event producers. We have the ITU, WTC, USAT, Xterra, etc. all fighting for athletes and exposure, and it muddies the water to the potential spectator or sponsor outside the sport. Hell, WTC will have 40+ 70.3 events next year. That volume dilutes the pro fields and makes for boring competition among the pros. Either you have two good guys and 5 others, or you have 10 mediocre guys and half of those being beat by the top AG's. Which gets you all on Slowtwitch talking about how much the pros suck etc. etc. We need a better defined schedule of "PRO races". Events focused on the top level competition (yet still with AG races) which feature big prize purses, good TV coverage, high quality fields, and real opportunity for the athletes and their sponsors. When the pro field becomes diluted it undermines the influence and importance of the pro race. Imagine with only Tony Hawk (although he's too old now) and Shawn White, and then just a bunch of those skater kids outside your local bank who fall over all the time. Nobody wants to watch that, but put out 10 Shawn White level guys and now it's interesting. Triathlon has the same issue, we have too many paying events and it takes away from the overall image of the pros.

I gotta get going, I'll check back on this later.

Jimmy

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Jimmy Archer
Pro Triathlete/Coach/Freelance Writer
http://www.jimmyarcher.com
http://www.dirttri.com

If and when the day comes "they" start paying $1MM salaries to triathletes is the day we get rampant doping, returds changing their name to Biff Ironman and paparazzi reporting on which athlete looks fat in their speedo. The reason I do triathlon is I know it takes dedication and a lifestyle to achieve your goals. Golf is huge because guys like John Daly who drink a qt. of whiskey a day and smoke a pack of Camels are heroes to 90% of the white guys in Indiana. 99% of the American consumers who eat up TV adds have no connection with what a triathlon is and what it takes to get there. And that is just fine with me. Sorry pro's. If you want to make some big money look elsewhere. The "consumer" dictates how much you make and unfortunately they'll never be able to do what you do to get what it means.

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If I wasn't livin' I'd be dyin'.

Post:

In Reply To:

I kind of envy the pro women who have spouses that make real money. But being a single young pro chick makes me more marketable to sponsors I'd like to think. ;)

I just turned pro in May and made about $5,200 in prize money this year so far, which is $5,200 more than I expected. One more race to go this weekend at IM Cozy.

I live at home with Mom & Dad when I'm not overseas at training camp. Not exactly glamorous but at least I'm only 27 and not 37 so I don't feel like *such* a loser. :) I also work part time at home when I am at home and make at most $2000/month from that. woohoo....

so where does a pro chick go to find a rich husband that wants to be her #1 sponsor? Slowtwitch or something?

Go easy love....

I know someone who is 38...has earned well into the 6 figures from the sport you're trying to break into for the past 4 to 5 years..and would stick kick ya butt now at 38.

Age isn't a factor and it sure as hell doesn't affect the numbers.

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"

Snatch, 2000.




But I think she is saying, she still has time to get better. It is a problem if someone is still trying to be a pro and only making say $5200/year total salary at age 38. That is unless you can supplement the $5200 prize money with other income sources or a very supportive spouse. Not many people will be able to become a professional triathlete at age 30(or so), in future and do as well as your wife/partner. Well some people will but not so many.

I believe all triathletes will need some money and a lot of family support to reach the top from now on. Either that or heavilly subsidised government support and training for the individual. Just getting to the big races and paying for accomadation is costly enough.

Also I think there are many ways an individual can market themselves and make money. Building a good brand around oneself will give the best rewards.....if you can do it.

G.
www.TriathlonShots.com

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http://www.TriathlonShots.com
Full event coverage of triathlon/ironman in photos.

I have been following this post and had a thought. Why do we even have "professional" triathletes? Most of the events, even the Ironman events, cater to the participants who pay to participate. The prize winnings and sponsorships opportunities for the pros are pathetic. So why do people become professionals?

Why would a company sponsor a pro? If a company sells swimsuits and swim related stuff, wouldn't they sponsor a professional swimmer? I'm sure the top pro swimmers are faster than the pro triathletes. Wouldn't a bike company prefer to sponsor a pro biker over a triathlete? How many people in the USA can name one top professional bike rider? How many people in the USA can name one top triathlete? Wouldn't a running shoe company want to sponsor a professional runner? I think the top marathoners can probably run circles around the top triathletes.

Why would spectators watch triathlons? Is it because they will see the fastest swimmers in the world like watching olympic swimming? Is it because they will see the fastest bike riders in the world like watching the TDF? Or is it because they will see the fastest runners in the world like watching olympic track events? I don't think they will see any of these things. They will just see people who are pretty good at each event. While that is really nice, it doesn't seem particularly exciting. Nor does it seem worthwhile of being a professional at it. If you want to be a professional, shouldn't you specialize in the event you are best at?

I'm not bashing triathlon or the professionals. I really enjoy racing in triathlons and I enjoy the health benefits I get from doing it as well as the comraderie of my other triathletes. I also enjoy seeing the pros on the race course and meeting them. I am sure they enjoy the sport as much as I do and I certainly wish them the best of luck in their chosen profession. I just wonder why we really need pro triathletes.

Oh, one other thought. I have seen several posts from "professionals" who say they haven't earned any money doing this sport. Doesn't the definition of a professional say that it is someone who derives his living doing that task? If you are a triathlete who earns his income delivering pizza, aren't you really a professional pizza delivery person, not a professional triathlete?

See, now this is marketing yourself.

I am now a fan.

I think both Ultratriguy and Jocelyn are somewhat right. Jocelyn is a superstar in my book for helping kids in the Phillipines with prosthetics (or something to that effect). UTG is correct that Joc need to work on that swim to really be considered a pro :-). As for an ST smackdown in Haikou, I would dearly love to go. My main problem is figuring out how on earth to haul my bike case around from Haikou to Shenzhen to Shanghai to Chengdu to to to between planes, taxis and hotel rooms.

UTG....don't be so hard on Jocelyn. She's like a little ST sister who is living the dream life that most of us stuck to our middle age lives can't live....so someone needs to do it for us! Actually I'll admit that after going through some tough years in my late 30's the last 5 years have been as close to the dream life that most working dudes can achieve while keeping all ball in the air during the perpetual juggling act of life.

Dev

Yeah, I'm pretty much with you on this. Why can't we just accept that triathlon is fun to do but inherently dull to spectate? Watching guys throw darts in a pub is more enthralling.

To offer a offer very good income potential, a sport needs to be able to sell lots of tickets and/or have good broadcast licensing. How would the snooze-a-thon that is IM racing meet either objective? ITU is closer but still not too likely to catch on big in the US.

Just becuase we would like our sport to have more mass appeal doesn't mean it ever will or even should. I'm sorry if this means more people can't chase their ego-centric dreams of training 40 hrs a week and living handsomely from it.

I would like to offer you a sponsorship deal! I'm about to launch my new matrimonial sponsorship program.
Please email me for details!

I would like to offer you a sponsorship deal! I'm about to launch my new matrimonial sponsorship program.

I've already trademarked "Pro, with benefits." (tm) so don't try to use that in your marketing material.

-Jot

I think the average pro dont make much at all. They make money at the end of the year when they sell their bikes and stuff.

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Formely stef32

Most likely it was owned/rented by the AGers he 'coaches' that both KQ'ed

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-- Aaron Davidson

that's what I'm saying, being a triathlon superstar isn't just about being really fast. If I was going around marketing myself as a superfast pro triathlete, that's DIFFERENT. ;) It's like how Britney Spears is a pop superstar but she is obviously not a great singer.

that's right... I just compared myself to Britney Spears.

As for my comment about age, I was not knocking the 38yo pro women at all. I am well aware there are many that can kick my ass. BUT if I was still living with my parents in 10 years and only making $5200/yr, and sleeping in the same twin bed, then well...enough said. And whoever the 38yo pro chick is making 6 figures, I really hope she is not still living with her parents. I mean, unless she's the one supporting them, that's cool.

And please continue to heckle me about my atrocious swimming. I know I deserve it. Everyone should heckle my swim!

living the dream! :D

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:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar

stop posting on ST and get in the pool.

:-)

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__________________
JP

my twitter feed

I'm right about to leave, I swear. hehehe!!

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...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar

I have been thinking about RASTA's original question. How can Triathlon as a sport could get more attention? How does this sound:

#1 - we need to make the sport more exciting. What do football, baseball, NASCAR, etc. have that triathlon doesn't have? How about lots of physical contact and opportunities for injuries? How can we do this with triathlon without actually hurting people very bad? How about if we rename triathlons? Instead of boring names like Ironman Florida you could call it the "Swim with the gators, Florida Triathlon" or "Run the Gauntlet tri" or something else that would draw interest. Some people may watch the Tour de France to see bike crashes. Maybe we need to turn triathlon into a team event. Allow people to draft or be in pelotons. Make the bike courses really hilly with lots of twists and turns. If there is an occasional crash, make sure the media is aware of it and that it gets lots of exposure. Make the run a short, fast sprint.

#2 - the events need to be shorter so they can be televised.

#3 - make triathlon a team sport. Call it the SuperFastTeam Pro triathlon. Have, say 5 team members and 10 teams per heat. The winning team has the shortest average time of all finishers and you have to have at least 4 finishers on a team. Here is how I would set it up:

Rather than have the mess that we have now at the beginning of the swim, each team starts in its own starting area and swims around it's own buoy. The distance can be 1/4 mile out, round the buoy and come back in. It will be easy to figure out which team is in the lead and TV coverage would be easy. Spectators can see which team is in the lead from the beach You can have lots of folks cheering on the shore to add excitement. They can ride together, so if they have an especially strong rider, that person can pull the group, drop off after the bike, then let the rest of them finish the run. The bike should be about 20 miles. It should be hilly and twisty as stated previously. There should be names for the hills and curves, like heartbreak hill and deadmans curve. Bleachers can be set up at these locations for spectators to cheer and increase excitement. Multiple loop courses or out and backs would be best. The run can be a 5K sprint to the finish.

Something like this would be easier to televise, sponsors might like it because their advertisements might get better airtime, it would be easy to run because it builds on the triathlon experience we already have and if there was prize money, there is an abundant pool of fast triathletes who would want to participate. The races would be over in an hour and a half or so, and with the magic of television editing, could easily be covered in an hour. Television spectators could watch a bunch of fit, athletic men and women racing around the course. I think it would be very attractive to the viewing audience and could be portrayed as very exciting.

After doing the professional men and women's waves, ameteur waves could follow at intervals of every 5 minutes or so. This could be a whole series held throughout the country. Finishers earn series points based on their finish positions in each race, then at the end of the year, they could have a final worlds type event to decide the winner with the highest point winners being invited.

Thoughts?

Wow, I had no idea that they made so little. Thats kind of sad.

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Bike Racks Never leave home without one.

You mess with Wongstar, you mess with her gang ;-)

I admire all the athletes on her team, but she is special.

As for Pros or semi-pros pursuing the sport with mostly minimal financial returns. If it was just about the money, most people would not get into track and field or triathlon or any of these sports that are not mainstream.

I know someone who was a professional runner in the 80's, with a 2nd at Boston, 2 LA Marathon wins, and ran in several Olympics. He lived a VERY frugal lifestyle for many years, and still does. Does he regret that choice today? NO. Would many of us trade our lifestyle to have lived the experiences he had? I know I would. Of course, lacking his talent would kibosh that idea. You only have one life to live and if you can pursue your passion and dream regardless of it being financially rewarding, that is great.

m but please give the "superstar" tag a rest until you have done what so many other female pros have done to actually earn that tag.


Flame away ST,flame away.I have no problem in this case.


.[/reply]

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Cervelo R3 and Cannondale Synapse, Argon18 Electron Track Bike

sounds like you are stealing a few ideas from ITU.

I find it amusing that despite the lack of love for ITU events on this site, that many of the suggestions made in this thread are suggestions the ITU has already put in place or which they are trialling.

This is such a crazy place.....I love slowtwich

I said 'don't write it like your owed it', not 'don't write it like you own it'. Sublte difference.

Lets face a few facts. There are British triathletes who are making good money because they are winners. Try Alistair Brownlee or Stuart Hayes or Chrissie Wellington, or Mr & Mrs Bayliss. Yes they race in the US, but not just in the US, they race all over the world. They are the 'true' professionals. They are not looking to slope off to their local sprints and work their way up to the (terribly organised) IMUK, they travel, and race where the money is - because they are good enough. They showcase their sponsors worldwide. IMO there are way too many 'second tier pro's' moaning about how much money there is in Triathlon. I think the WTC pro's licence is a great idea. It gives sponsors the opportunity to identify licenced pro's, helps identify competitors who need drug testing and brings about an air of realism to the term 'pro'. If you have not got a name on the global scene in Ironamn how much do you think your are worth to a sponser as a second tier athlete??? If you can't cut it in your local Oly, how do you think your are going to do in a series race for big money where the really fast people racing! Try asking Jonathan Hotchkiss.

As with all things in life you have to prove your worth before you are worth it. When I joined my current firm I did not as the chief Executive and with 23 years here I still have a way to go. I have been steadily promoted though and based on my career past and current fee producing activities you can easily see what I am 'worth' to my firm. Same thing applies to athletes. Your only worth what your exposure and finishing position dictate. A lot of that is also dictated by the sport you choose - golf mega exposure - triathlon very very limited exposure.

If your doing it for love I applaud you (so am I ;-) If your doing it for money I applaud you even more - god knows hard that must be training, travelling, organising and racing especially if you need a part time/full time job for support. But I am sorry I just cannot stand people whinging 'oohhh its different in the UK' or 'I have a degree and could get a well paid job'. If you want it do - I admire you, I really do. If your not good enough tough. Sorry, but that's my attitude.

As for the WTC argument I agree that WTC need to up the ante. But not just in the prize money stakes because lets face it that is not where the bulk fo the money is. The real money is in exposure and media, and that is where we should be pusing WTC to make big investments. Exposure lasts for years and benefits the spost as a whole, another £500,000 in the race purse lasts 1 race and benefits the top ten.

By the way - triathlon is pretty much my life, I just don't think you can start comparing circumstances and earnings - you either want to earn shed loads and live your life accordingly, or you want to lead a particular life style which usually means you are precluded from earning shed loads. A few very very lucky people are talented and gifted anough to do both. The Bastards.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

The money for Pro's is in sponsorship, and if you're Crowie or Macca the sponsorships will come to you, if you're a guy who wins a few local tri's and maybe a top ten here or there at an IM then you'll probably have to go to the sponsors. That means you would have to do alot of 'cold calling' for sponsors, and go out there and sell yourself. Many just can't or will not do this, and they draw in no revenue.

Its not something I would want to do, but my guess is a pro who could sell themselves could actually pull in some cash.

I think the thing lost in all of this is when its over, said pro is in his / her mid 30's with no retirement, no equity into any career, and no real workplace experience. I think that in itself is the biggest loss any pro has. This goes for all sports. Triathletes though seem to be a smart breed and many seem to have a good education to fall back on.

"I think the thing lost in all of this is when its over, said pro is in his / her mid 30's with no retirement, no equity into any career, and no real workplace experience. I think that in itself is the biggest loss any pro has. This goes for all sports. Triathletes though seem to be a smart breed and many seem to have a good education to fall back on."

I think you make really good points in your last paragraph. I have no idea why anyone would want to be a professional triathlete. It makes ZERO sense to me. The risks are huge and the rewards are almost non-existent. I just don't get it. Someone please explain to me why anyone would be dumb enough to go this route. I understand wanting to do something you enjoy, but I would hope there would be other options / interests other than triathlon or s/b/r for just about everyone.

I think one of the very things that make triathlon appealing to the average athlete -- the way that there's no real separation between pros and AGers at race check-in, on the course, in transition, at the awards banquet -- means that the above-average AGer finds it way more "realistic" to dream of being a "pro" than he/she might in any other sport. I can't think of another sport where someone, after racking up a few minor achievements at amateur level, could suddenly deem it credible to turn pro the following season and try to make a living at it. I mean, the first thing people say to me when they hear I won my AG is "so when are you going to turn pro?" That kind of attitude would never fly in cycle racing or marathoning, yet it's common in triathlon. And I just raced a regular IM, I didn't win my AG at Kona!

But triathlon is full of people who have taken a leave of absence from work, saved up and quit their jobs, and/or got the spousal okay to go at it full-time in the hopes of "making it" as a pro. Heck, it's full of people who are full-time amateurs (and I fit into that category myself) who had the financial and family wherewithal to take a year and see how well we far we could go. Personally I'd rather be winning my AG as an amateur than lolling around the bottom half of the rankings as a mediocre and anonymous pro, but I'm mid-30s and realistic; I know I don't have what it takes, either physically or mentally, to fight my way to the top. It was fun while it lasted, but the real world beckons again.

By the way, I don't begrudge anyone for having a go at being pro, best of luck to them. I do think, however, that the new WTC rules for pros will weed out those who shouldn't be there and who are dragging down the rest in their mediocrity. I said it in another post, but 60% of the male pros in Kona were beaten by the top dozen AGers. That shouldn't be happening. Glad to see the WTC is taking steps to improve that.

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https://twitter.com/smaryka

I do think, however, that the new WTC rules for pros will weed out those who shouldn't be there and who are dragging down the rest in their mediocrity. I said it in another post, but 60% of the male pros in Kona were beaten by the top dozen AGers. That shouldn't be happening. Glad to see the WTC is taking steps to improve that.

Agreed,

And I think that an option for many of the lower ranking Pros will be to now race AG - my sense is that is what the WTC wants them to do and is encouraging them to do based on the new rules. Guess what - certain AGs just got a whole lot more competitive and Kona slots a lot more harder to get!!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog