I believe Peter Reid rode his road bike until he got into the specifics phase of his programs. Lots of riding on his road bike.

She can say whatever she wants as far as I am concerned... I just like watching her talk.

I am not exactly sure what you mean by your question. In regards to the trainer, I don't have a good pulse on how much time athletes spend on a trainer versus the road. For someone who has had two TT bikes since 2010, personally I don't like putting my TT bike on the trainer just because that is a lot of sweat and corrosion to take. Some people don't have the option to ride outside before their springs races in NA so I get it, they need to ride indoors. To me riding indoors on the trainer in TT is very different than riding outdoors with the TT bike.

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It's true! At least two thirds of my total cycling volume over the course of the year is on the trainer. Of that time, only a tiny fraction is in aero position. When I ride outside, I spend most of time time comfortably riding in aero, but I find the same position completely unsustainable on the trainer. I've ridden my cross bike a lot in past years, but barely touched it until this October. The bottom line for me is that the type of cycling I'm doing (aero vs non-aero, tri vs cx) isn't that important, all else equal with respect to workouts. The fitness is readily transferable provided I get at least a few quality outdoor rides in on my tri bike prior to racing. During my IMMT and IMChoo builds, I only averaged one ride per week outdoors and less than a third of my total cycling time in aero position.

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a thing to keep in mind when borrowing from pros:

1) they generally ride a lot more than you/us

therefore, if cody rides 12hrs a week avg that means he's doing 4hrs roughly in aerobars

it also means that adaptation periods are going to be much shorter. cody is probably on the lower end of the volume scale, but if a pro triathlete rides 15-20hrs a week, they're time to adapt to positional changes is going to be significantly shorter than an athlete who does 5-10.

2) they generally get done a lot quicker and have fewer distractions

the difference between a 4.25 hour bike ride in aero and 5.25 hour bike ride in aero (both solid bike splits for pro vs ag) is...1 hour. that's a lot less time to spend in the aero position.

Good points! It's rarely advisable to copy what pros are doing when so many other variables differ for a typical AG athlete.

You're right that my volume is on the low side. I only had a handful of weeks over 12 hours of cycling. I probably average about 6 hours/week of cycling over the year. I've only ridden 4 hours since IMChoo three weeks ago!

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I do all my during the week trainer rides on my TT bike sitting up. I ride outdoors on the weekends in aero. Never had an issue, can maintain the same power for the HR/RPE.

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Great question/observation.
From a mechanistic viewpoint being rotated further back around the bottom bracket in a road position should allow you to put more weight down onto the pedals. The reason is you are pushing downwards against more of your bodyweight you can even add more weight by pulling up on the drops. This must be great exercise for your legs. Riding on the roadbike would be good for muscular endurance and power development.
If you are rotated forwards into the aero postion more of your body is supported by the elbows and less is available to help you push down on the pedals so being in the TT position is probably not as effective if you want to develop your power on the bike.

I prob don't train as much as you studs on the bike so take that with a grain a salt, but man, I absolutely HAVE to train in the TT position on my Kickr, or I am literally doomed on race day. If I don't put at least near race-equivalent time in all-aero position, I will develop such significant back pain and discomfort that I have to completely sit up on race day.

I tried to get away with it this season where I skipped HIMs and just did sprints and an Oly, so I did the Trainerroad midvolume plan while sitting up on the rest intervals. Man, I really suffered on that Oly bike - not the legs or cardio ,which were totally fine, but my lower back was simply NOT acclimated to the position - had to sit up for the last 10 mins of the bike, and it even hampered the 1st two miles of my run by at least 30sec/mile! I've used TR in the past and forced myself to stay all-aero, and had zero back problems on race day, so it's def the sitting up on the rest intervals that is causing the problems for me. Won't do that again!

So while it works for some, count me in the group that has learned the hard way that we have to train in the TT position, and for long duration, to race comfortably in that position.

I also wonder when these pros say "upright", HOW upright are they talking?

For example, there is a HUGE difference between:

- Upright on a road bike on a trainer where the stem and bars are slammed all the way down so that your back is still angled (a fair amount) while on the hoods.

- Upright on a TT bike on the same trainer, but you literally sit straight up like a flagpole, with your hands resting on the pads (rather than the bullhorns).

I could see the "upright" position where you're still angled, as still working for 'aero' training, whereas that stock upright position probably won't help you at all. (At least that is what I learned the hard way from sitting up like that on my TT bike and then getting bad back pain at the end of the bike on race day....)

I haven't seen anyone mention it, but the lack of inertia on the trainer makes it quite a bit different than riding on the road. During the dead parts of the stroke a trainer will slow down. This will particularly effect aero position with a tighter hip angle at TDC.

Thanks for chiming in! Yes, not advisable to follow completely but still helpful to know. I maybe get 6-8 hours per week of riding and I have been trying to spend most of that time in aero but it's becoming clear to me that it isn't necessary and I can and should take out the road bike (still quite aggressive of a position) for at least one ride a week, maybe two!

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Good observation. When I’m suffering on a v02 workout (which for some reason since buying a kickr and using erg mode, is a lot more difficult than my old Kurt kinetic), I’ll move from tt to base bars but still ‘hunch over’ and drill it. I don’t open up completely and sit upright unless I’m about to meet certain death. But it open a up the hip angle just enough to allow a bit more force. Maybe it’s a bit mental too, but I went back and forth with the idea of tt position and upright for a while. I just figured getting the power out is more important as long as I still can ride tt outdoors.

I have done it these ways and I have also spent a lot of time with my torso completely vertical with my hands either on my hips or gently on top of my thighs. Fwiw, before Ironman Wisconsin in 2015 I hadn't been in the TT bike position since Ironman Mont Tremblant a month before that race. I wasn't planning on doing Ironman Wisconsin otherwise I would have done a little aero position work. I was quite surprised just how good I felt on race day.

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I can maybe explain this and for Angela and Cody I would agree - BUT

1. If you ride a single nose saddle in TT you put an imbalanced load on your pelvis. I commuted on a TT one summer and OMG!!

2. If you ride a split nose saddle and wedge it evenly on both sides, the good news is imo, you can go forever. When I got the P5X the owner asked me if I wanted the stock saddle, hell ya ..and it was quite a bit of discomfort (on the left horn) at first but liked the balance. After a couple of months of riding, love it. Real eye opener,

So I would qualify both athlete's comments. Single nose saddle, then yes you are better off pinning your sit bones!

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Well...I've got two bikes...sort of. My New TT bike and the TT Bike that was in a crash...guess I could use the second one as a trainer queen considering I haven't chucked it in the trash.

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Just the most convenient post to quote,

I don’t see pictures of Obree having his tuck position or superman on his old manual resistance trainer. Yes, there are outdoor videos and photos of him using it. But no different than using your TT bike outside today.

2x hour record holder. Didn’t train indoors in aero.

Just sayin....

This is what I do. Upright on road bike indoors. Aero on tri outside. I can’t hold aero indoors for some reason.

Makes sense, but...you're still riding aero. If no outside time, do you think you would still do road bike indoors?

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I've gone to one ride a week in aero and four or five a week upright on longer cranks to replicate hip angle. My issue with sitting in aero is saddle discomfort. The only way around that, for me, is to pedal near threshold. Not sure how it will pan out but it's the best solution I can come up with for the time being.

There is no aerodynamic force being applied to your body riding a trainer. Fit and comfort are affected by this.

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There was a HIM race a couple years ago that I did that. In FL heat, I still exclusively indoors. I tried doing some aero work inside but I can’t hold it more than 5-10 min. So I said screw it! Just did all my riding on the road bike on the trainer and I don’t recall having any issues on race day in aero. I wouldn’t do that though for a full. 2.5 hours and 5.5 hours are very different.

True.
Last week I read on a different forum a guy suggesting to put the tri bike in a slight incline. He said that since we don’t have wind pushing us back indoors, there is more weight on the upper body relative to outdoor riding. I thought it made sense and I plan on doing that to see if it helps the next time I am forced to do a long indoors

I think I’ll try the same thing see if it helps. I bought my bike last winter and was fitted for it at the local shop. It worked well on the trainer, but once outside I had to make a lot of tweaks to get the fit comfortable.

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https://trigeek1969.blogspot.ca

I think it is important to understand how much of your training is indoor
in 10 years I have never been aero indoors but i do my long rides outside, even 6-7hrs aero position no issue at all
indoor? only non-aero

if you do 100% indoor training, then the situation is different and you should do some % aero for sure.

you can´t make a rule for all