Point taken. I'm not sure what races would be comparable. MIM is considered a fast course (my p.r. course). I still think sub-2 is more impressive, but as you point out the times become pretty arbitrary given the different courses (i.e. Lanzarote or Wildflower olympic).

Well Hookem, got to hand it to you, you sure got a response to this one. Didn't think there would be so many insecure about what they are doing!!!!!

This is the way I look at it, I have played around with the sport over the past years but have never signed up for a race. Well over the summer I got to thinking. What is something that I have never done that I want to do? IM came to mind.

My wife bought me a new Tri Bike for Christams and a bunch of other gear. I have been a runner and swimmer for years. I personaly like long distance events. It takes more thinking and motivation to get through the event. I am sure I will get blasted for my post, but the way I look at it I never enter into something until I am prepared.

I do not want to do anything shorter than a half IM. Well, maybe the tri at Paris Island only because I am a former Marine.

Pain is not weakness leaving the body, Pain is that feeling you get when you know you failed.

Dude... if we're hanging out, with you close by nobody will DARE to take a swing at me! :-D

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

"I'd bet if you put an IM event in the olympics,"

Would never happen. It's too long an event to televise and without drafting the field would get too stretched out to make interesting TV drama. IM actually makes for boring TV. Why else do you think NBC throws in all the sob stories in their coverage? In the Olympic distance they have found a formula to make triathlon exciting to watch and palpatible to the general public, IM is more of a cult sport with relatively little appeal to people not involved directly in the sport.

I really wasn't trying to be argumentative, just presenting a different opinion.

Your Leadville and 100 Free comparison is also apples and oranges. (And by the way my :54 100scy free, while still pathetic, trumps your sons 1:12 ;) ) Is it any more impressive if I am also a broke-down working class stiff?

You have obviously sworn your allegiance to the Ironman and that is great. I (like the original poster) prefer to race shorter events, to each his own.

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"The more you sweat today, the less you bleed tomorrow"

sorry to be argumentative, you're absolutely correct - to each his own. Two final thoughts:

1) I'm sure glad we're comparing your swim time with my son's ;-)

2) Happy holidays, and good luck with the upcoming tri season.

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

hamish carter and bevan docherty both have huge profiles in nz. what distance do they compete in? ;)

>>hamish carter and bevan docherty both have huge profiles in nz. what distance do they compete in? ;)<<

Yes, but who is THE Kiwi triathlete.....Erin Baker. Ironman.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

When you think about it an IM is a ridiculous event, and I am a certified tri-junkie and in my time have done 9. Been in the sport for a very long time, but "retired" back in 1997 when my son was born. Saw the writing on the wall, that I could not be the parent I wanted to be and keep on doing what I was doing in Triathlon.

The obsession with IM is a bit over the top. Even an Olympic distance race takes most/many folks close to 3 hours to do - how long do they need to go?

Explain the IM distance to any of your man-in-the-street friends and they will either look at you like you are insane or their eyes will gloss over like they can't even comprehend what you are talking about!

It's great to take on a challenge, but there is a massive investment in time, energy and money required to even get to the starting line of that challenge. I recall reading somewhere that it costs about $10,000 to do an IM when you factor in ALL the costs - not just entry and travel.

Just some thoughts.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Hookem,

I was making general comments to those that say things like "I'll never do an IM b/c doing one would take away too much time from my family, free time, etc". By saying that, a person IS (indirectly saying), "Anyone that has a family and does an IM race is sacrificing their family for their training". The case may very well be that they are, but (as posted here many times), there are quite a few folks doing IM races on <10h/wk training.

Secondly, as I pointed out above, I highly doubt that for many AG'ers that the amount of weekly time invested between Oly distance racers and IM racers is that much (if any). It's not like IM comps train 30h/wk and Oly comps train 12h/wk. Training time and distance don't appear to exist in a direct relationship.

I bring this up b/c IMO it's important for "both sides" to realise that the 'other side' (either the long or short course dudes) is often times training just as much and sacrificing just as much. In terms of "hierarchy" or "respect" based on amount/quality of training, both sides are equal (IMO) but differ in preference. So, I'm not seeing where "lack of training time" or "unwillingness to scrifice family" is all that valid of an excuse for not doing an IM race.

It's not a bad thing to just say "I'll never do an IM race b/c I don't prefer the long course", rather than saying "I won't do an IM race b/c the time commitment is too much & I really love my kids" ... and then go out and put in a 14h/wk for Oly distance training.

That's all I am saying.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
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"Yes, but who is THE Kiwi triathlete.....Erin Baker. Ironman. "

Are you speaking for all of New Zealand Cathy? I'd bet the Olympic triathletes would likely be better known by the average person on the street in N.Z. As already posted, Whitfield is definately the best known triathlete in Canada by far by virtue of winning the Olympics.

Although I like participating in Ironman (the key word is participate), I love RACING at half Ironman and Olympic. These are real races for me. Ironman is one long day of survival. The shorter events are way more fun.

...and to triple threat's point, I do just as much training for half Ironman or Olympic as for Ironman. In fact when I raced Olympic (or focused on it), I had lots of specific swim, bike hill and running track workouts that I had to do mid week that took more time than my basic Ironman stuff. I still went moderately long on the weekend to be competitive (or so I thought...).

In any event, I do sacrifice family time to race Ironman, but everyone in my family is at peace with this (including myself). At least I waste less time doing Ironman training than my buddies who play golf all weekend :-)

"Yes, but who is THE Kiwi triathlete.....Erin Baker. Ironman."

Indeed, Baker did Ironman races and had a few very good ones, but back in those days the top triathletes were not one trick ponies, they did it all and Erin Baker was a stand-out at the Olympic Distance as well. She also could, no suprise, run like the wind!

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Erin Baker also ran 2:37 for the marathon. Yes, back in the late 80's/early 90's everyone raced long and short course, and generally all the long course times were faster in the pro field...funny how that works.

erin baker more known for her exploits that werent ironman...she didnt care too much for the distance. that's what i read in an interview anyway.

there is also rick wells...




and in nz currently hamish carter and bevan docherty ARE triathlon. nearly EVERYONE knows who hamish carter is. he is easily one of the most recognisable sporting personalities in nz. he is also a very gregarious person it seems. if anyone deserved to win the olympics it was him. probably most deserving triathlete to have won anything in recent memory (other than cameron brown hehe)

"Secondly, as I pointed out above, I highly doubt that for many AG'ers that the amount of weekly time invested between Oly distance racers and IM racers is that much (if any). It's not like IM comps train 30h/wk and Oly comps train 12h/wk. Training time and distance don't appear to exist in a direct relationship"

Cathy,

Good point. There is a relationship and it's pretty straight-forward, An Olympic Distance triathlon, even a sprint triathlon is almost a 100% Aerobic event, and for any 100% aerobic event the bigger your aerobic engine is, the better/faster you will be. How do you make that engine bigger, train long and hard. So generally speaking any triathlete, competeing at any standard triathlon distance( sprint, Oly, or IM) will benefit from longer more voluminus training.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Olympic under 2 or Ironman under 10, which is the bigger accomplishment ?

I'd say Ironman under 10 for me, simply because I have never gotten there. I've been under 2 once and close to 2 many times. I doubt I will ever get under 2 again simply because I no longer have the raw closing run speed that I used to. Ironman under 10 is still a distinct hope on the right course.

So as it stands today, Ironman under 10 would be a huge achievement for me, simply cause Olympic under 2 is a lost cause.

My biggest goal though is half Ironman under 4:25. This year I went 4:27...its in reach...bring on Demi Esprit 2006.

"After my first IM while in the med tent I told the nurse how stupid the race was and everybody who does it is nuts and I would NEVER under any circumstances do another one.

She just laughed and said "that's what they all say, see you next year."

Wise words."

Yeah, this pretty well summarizes it. I've said this on my 4 visits to the med tent.

It is like Hotel California...you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...

All I was looking for were a few people who think going short is enough for them. How anyone can distort this into something to be offended by is beyond me.

You realize we are on Slowtwitch don't you.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

For me, that is not a simple yes or no. In the past few years, I've been around 2:05 for the Olympic distance. This race has been about 3-4 weeks leading up to the Ironman qualifier I competed in, so I was carrying a good amount of fatigue into it. Starting from nothing, I would say that the time commitment to break 10 hours in the IM and 2 hours in the Olympic distance would be pretty comparable. However, since I've been racing HIM's and IM's for the past 5 years, I've built up a really good aerobic base which should allow me to break 2 hours with less training (timewise). As Fleck mentioned, going long is definitely beneficial to the shorter distance races. The key thing to remember, is quality over quantity.

My only suggestion to you would to not rule out a future challenge based upon current feelings. You may find that with continual training that your approach to the sport may change and that you might want to tackle a full IM.

I have three kids, one wife (currently), a busy job, my wife works and our home life is a wonderful mix of busy-ness and chaos. That being said I'm tackling IMLP this year.

My wife and I were discussing this. I've come to the conclusion that whether or not I complete a full IM, the event does not define WHO I AM rather it defines WHAT I CAN ACCOMPLISH. I tend to think that there is a big difference between the two.

B.

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Sponsored by: TBA

Although I like participating in Ironman (the key word is participate), I love RACING at half Ironman and Olympic. These are real races for me. Ironman is one long day of survival. The shorter events are way more fun.
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Well said.

As I stated before racing and finishing is two different things.

If the organizers of Ironman distance events pull the cut-off times back to 13-14 hrs I wonder how many people will be able to finish or will be interested to do an Ironman????

But they never will because...(fill in the blank)

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I see obsessed people.

All I was looking for were a few people who think going short is enough for them. How anyone can distort this into something to be offended by is beyond me.

FWIW, that's how I read your post. You found what makes you happy and what you are content with, and it is different than what makes some others happy and content. ... and you were wondering if anyone else felt the same way.

The only thing that you said that might relate to anything I was commenting on is this ...

That said, with three kids and possibly a fourth in the next year or two, I cannot justify to myself or my family the time and effort necessary to prepare for an IM.

... and my comments regarding (specifically) that were along the lines of "many people with families participate in IM races with similar hours as those that train for shorter races" (and referred to a few examples posted at this site). I did not find anything you said to be offensive, demeaning, or instigating ... just perhaps unaware of how "little" some people train for long course races and do pretty well at it.

The other comment I made regarding (specifically) that commentary, was that I was curious/speculating that the time invested by those [1] seeking to do really well (competitive) at short course races is likely very comparable to the time invested by [2] those that train to do well at long course races. The latter point was one I was wanting imput from others to see if it held water or not. Specifically, I was curious as to what take more time/effort, [1] building 'short course speed', or [2] building 'long course endurance'?

In short, my comments were meant to be positive (to what you specifically said), and to be summed up as "according to some here, training for long course races does not always need to require a great deal more time than training to do well at short course races. So, if it is the time committment that is putting you off, ask around, b/c some others seemingly do well with training hours that many would not find to be "excessive" or "interferring" with family life." (If you don't want to do long course racing due to lack of interest or other reasons, then my comments wouldn't come close to applying to your situation)

I had in mind guys like Dave Cambell, Ray Britt, etc ... and compared them to guys like Cerveloguy, who only does sprints, but seems to train (especially biking with roadies) quite a bit.

I cannot justify to myself or my family the time and effort necessary to prepare for an IM

IMO, it all comes down to what you mean by necessary ... and (possibly) for what goals/results (relative).

Take Care Hookem. Greg Swindell -- Texas (83-86) flat-out rocks. =)

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

it appears you have a terribly guilty conscious - now get off the trainer and go read to your kids ;-)