Who said you "had" to do an IM? Yes, this forum can be slanted towards Cervelo and the IM distance...but you know the answers to your questions already. There's plenty of folks here who will never do an IM...in fact, I'm sure there's a number that don't race at any distance, period.

Enjoy the sport at whatever distance you desire....so long as you enjoy the journey.

There is nothing wrong with avoiding the IM train. I have done tris for around 12 years and didn't do my first IM until IMCDA this summer. Although it was a great experience, there is nothing magical about it. Kinda just felt like a long slog in some respects (at least for a slow old guy like me, time: 11:37). It is really not that big a deal to go out and crawl your way to a 15+ hour IM which it seems like some people do.

I have always thought the Half IM was the best distance to really race for the average mortal. Long enough to really make you train but short enough to do one a month if you really wanted to.

Just do as much or as little as makes you happy. That is all that really matters in the end anyway.

Of course you don't want to do an IM, you're a loser that only got registered last October and has only 118 posts!

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smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Trimike

Thank you very much for affirming exactly what I feel an IM race would be for me. You understood my post and I am very thankful that at least one person did.

Your time is way below 17, and I would guess there are hundreds of people at that race that wouldn't call your time slow as a few posters on this site would be quick to do.

That's because IM athletes are (and kind of need to be) obsessive about the sport because the demands are so great. This is a great outlet (maybe even inlet!) for obsession, so the IM peeps tend to be the ones who stick around here.

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

You should do IM. It helps break up the monotity of all that freestyle. If you can just get through the butterfly, then it is a cinch.

LOL!!!

Seriously though... do whatever you enjoy the most! Personally, I enjoy (and have ample time to train for) longer distance events. I got into running specifically for marathons, and into triathlons specifically for Ironman. That's my passion.

PS- just registered last month, and trying to work my way up to 118 posts!

It's been a slow fourth quarter with two Hurricanes nearly wiping my region off the freaking map!!!

Actually business is good, and after reading a few hundred of your posts I figured that lurking and posting yields about the same amount of benefit (none) to most of the threads so why not type.

even though i like running long, i prefer to stick to the shorter tris. they are more fun for me, and i don't kill myself training. i'm too focues on my business, and have alot of other hobbies, so it would make me unhappy to spend that much time on an IM. years ago i thought i would like it, now i def know i would not.

10K's,marathons, sprints and olys are all the satisfaction I require. :)

Noone said I had to do one, but the overwhelming assumption by everyone I tell or who asks about Triathlon is that I am going to do one...but I don't want to. I respect the hell out of everyone who does, but HIM is enough for me. Cost/benefit ratio of going longer doesn't compute for me. Had I taken this up a decade earlier...maybe.

I'm right with ya'. I stretched myself last year to do a half iron to see what it was like and don't even want to do that again even though I did OK. Tried a sprint (misnomer) or two and liked them better, so I'll stick to 1 hour to 3 hour events. If I didn't have to work (dang) I would seriously consider an IM but not sure my old feet could handle the training.

That last sentence sums it up...it's all that I require as well and thank you for affirming that Kittycat.

My version of that type of IM...25 meters of controled drowning followed by silence. It is about as appealing as the other IM to me.

Ironman distance in and of itself holds no allure for me. I'm happy doing sprints so far and I might consider a half in the next two years. I don't have enough time to train for an IM, I'm not motivated, I haven't been on ST long enough, and I don't have nearly enough posts to even consider such an undertaking. I respect those who have done an IM, but it is not on my radar.

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Lou Battaglia

Why didn't I retire last year?

Noone said I had to do one, but the overwhelming assumption by everyone I tell or who asks about Triathlon is that I am going to do one

Trust me, I think we've all run into people that hear we do "triathlon" and assume it's not only and Ironman, but it's "the one on TV" (meaning Kona). When I did a HIM in September, I actually had people here at work ask me how the "sprint thing" went...

Yeah, it's "just" a half Ironman. Too funny.

But it sounds like you've got your head screwed on right with regards to this. If and when you decide to go the IM distance don't worry, it will be there waiting for you....If not, that's okay too as I don't think there's a scarcity of competitors just yet. ;-)

I don't ever plan on doing an IM. Like others have said I respect anyone that does IM at a high level (under twelve hours) but it's not for me.

Oly distance triathlons are about as far as I can do at a somewhat decent level being that I can only run about 20 miles per week.

i decided some time ago that i'm better in support of my ironman friends. for example, i can go on marisol's recovery rides with her (she's cruising, i'm half dead), and am more than willing to talk and listen. roof is self containing, i just bring him a bottle of wine every now and then and he's happy. mark may have a couple of panick attacks over his upcoming IM swim, so i'll be around to talk him off the ledge. :) as for greydog, i'll certainly support her any way i can, although I wonder if she is a secret super hero.

With you. Completely. I've done one half, and that was far enough, thank you. I have ZERO desire to do an IM. And I don't even have the family commitments you do (one daughter, that's it).

And that assumptive attitude is not just on the outside of the sport. It's IN it too.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

Another ounce of sarcasm lost forever...

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I don't think you are being honest. I think that deep down you really WANT to do one but just can't make the commitment for whatever reason.

I've heard your lines from so many others many times before. eventually most of them did an Ironman......then another one, oh yeah, after they said they would NEVER do another one........In fact I have said that myself.......several times. ......In fact I just retired 6 weeks ago and anounced it publically on this very forum ......but then since signed up for 2 qualifying races.

Now, when I say I am going to retire after a race I just get a big eye roll from the wife. My kids get upset because they think I'm serious. They love the Ironman more than me. oh, I have three busy ones so that's no excuse.

After my first IM while in the med tent I told the nurse how stupid the race was and everybody who does it is nuts and I would NEVER under any circumstances do another one.

She just laughed and said "that's what they all say, see you next year."

Wise words.

After my first IM while in the med tent I told the nurse how stupid the race was and everybody who does it is nuts and I would NEVER under any circumstances do another one.

She just laughed and said "that's what they all say, see you next year."

Good grief, how true that sentiment is. All through my disgusting marathon at IMF I'm telling myself "no way I'm ever doing this again....I'm even gonna pull out of AZ and just accept that this distance is not for me..."

....and then the next day I get pissed because I didn't sign up for '06 in time. Allrighty then.

I thought I would do an IM for my 50th birthday (which is in 2 years), sorta like "I'm not really old" thing. But after I did my first century last month, I could never imagine running after riding that distance. And as slow as I am, I don't think I could make the bike cutoff. The century has cured me completely. I also don't like running so it would have been so difficult for me to find the motivation. I think I would need years and years of base training because I had no athletic background whatsoever. I could not imagine the juggling that people do who have young children along with the demands of a job.

I have the utmost respect for all of those who have finished an IM distance, from the first finishser to the last.

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Hookem, it just says that you actually have a life! The IM'ers are totally immersed in triathlon, training, etc. and any time they have left over goes toward whatever else is going on in their lives. Triathlon is supposed to be fun and challenging, but it doesn't have to be your entire life. I say this as I begin my training for MY first IM in April. I'll let you know how I feel after my race!

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Hookem

I am glad you posted this subject. I was going to post the same subject. I am with you I don't want to due an IM. I have read 21 posts we are not alone on this subject. I am also new to the Forum but have been going to ST site for two years. I have great respect for the people who due IM's(some are my friends). I am with Kittycat(sp) it is just not for me. I like to train but I also want to due other things. The amount of training for an IM... well I am not going just spent that much time. I train most days I don't work as it is.(I work 3 days a week 12 hr. days) At 53 I don't want to train on the days I work. My first race was an Oly. loved it ,I was hooked on the sport. I raced one race a month last season April.-Out. due Sprint, Oly.dis. but am planning on 70.3 next season(maybe).

I also have learned from the people who post on this site. But I also feel it is slanted to Im/Cervelo way of thinking. I am glad to see I am not the only one who fees this way.

Bob

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Train safe & smart
Bob

Ironman is the pinnacle of triathlon. In every sport there are varying degrees of achievement. One time I was climbing a mountain (Mt. Rainier) and a fellow climber was struggling. Halfway up the mountain the guide turned to the climber and told them, "Today this is your personal summit". I don't know if that made the distressed climber feel better or not but I can tell you that I was glad to make it to the actual summit of the mountain...

"Ironman is the pinnacle of triathlon. In every sport there are varying degrees of achievement."

This is exactly the "IM slant" that grates on me... Connotation that you haven't achieved until you've done IM. That IM is the be-all, end-all of triathlon. Just ask one of those IM MOPers about a 2-hour oly...

Neither is a pinnacle, or the ultimate anything. They are just different aspects of the same sport. And in the end, we're all going to be just dust and a collection of experiences.

And I'm like Bill and Ted: Be excellent to each other... (yeah, right!)

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

I would love to compete in an IM but sadly I don't think my old body is going to allow it. The mental drive is there, the commitment to train is there, but avoiding the injury bug seems to be a problem. If an Oly or 1/2 is all I'm allowed, I'm happy. At this point, every day I get to run 6 miles is a gift from above.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

i am thinking this way too. might take a rest from the whole ironman thing after ironman nz (unless of course i should qualify for hawaii!). it just seems too time consuming. plus i have a low immune system as it is (diabetic) and ironman training just seems to compound my susceptibility to illness.

i find i don't go surfing on days where there are excellent waves because i 'have' to do a long bike. now this used to be one of my passions and now it has become subsumed by the obsession that ironman seems to dictate. i'm also someone who likes to do the best i can in anything i do and with ironman that necessitates some very long training hours.

Another ounce of sarcasm lost forever...

Not a chance...still trying to get all the coffee out of my keyboard... ;-)

That's a fallacy. You can be quite successful in Ironman on 8-10 hrs training per week which is hardly life dominating, especially if you get up early and bang out your workout before the rest of the family is out of bed. I've done 7 Ironmans and have qualified for Hawaii 4 times but I also play tennis twice a week, run my kids swim team, go to almost all their practices, ski on the weekend with the family, and hang out with the family every night after work. If you train correctly it doesn't have to be an all consuming affair. I'm proof. Sure I could be better if I trained more but I don't want IM to be all consuming just a really fun, really healthy, really rewarding hobby, which is what it is.

And yes, like it or not, Ironman is the pinnacle of the sport.

i'd say winning the olympics is a bigger achievement. that's just me though....

In most sports yes. In triathlon no. It's Hawaii.

Quick, who won the men's olympic triathlon? Who won the silver?

I swore that I would never do an IM. It was denial. I thought that I could never do one so I just told myself and others that I would never do one.

But as everyone here that has done one, the urge slowly creeps up on you, you start doing halfIMs, get in better shape and before you know it you say what the fuck... sign up and do it.

IMLP was my first and during the race I swore I'd only do sprints from then on.....Can't wait for IM wisco

"Slow"??? Old guy like you. Damn, I hope one day I can be as "slow" as you are. ;)

And yes, it is written somewhere that you have to do an IM distance race. That's the only reason I did one... honest.

Trae

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Trae McCombs
TSR - Sponsored by the Masses. Racing for the hell of it.
Ironman Finisher 2005 -- 14:09:18

Refreshing to hear that. I don't really LIKE to train half the damn day on a Saturday. I enjoy 60-90 minutes a day at the most, but it has been cutting into my surf time (I try to surf almost every day). I'll stick it out for IM Australia because I really want to do an IM to see if I can, but it remains to be seen if I will want to put in the hours to do another one.
About Ironman being the pinnacle, what about the Deca-Ironman? Wouldn't THAT be the pinnacle? I'm thinking for those folks a mere single ironman is a walk in the park!

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Question for you. I see where you finished an IM in 14:09:18.

Would you trade that 14 hour effort for a sub 2:20 oly finish?

Just wondering....

im gonna call bullshit on that. winning olympics much tougher than hawaii....



anyway hamish carter won gold, bevan docherty silver.



who won hawaii this year? faris al sultan. who got second. cameron brown.

sub 2:20 oly experience.... :/ Not really sure. I doubt it. I love and always have enjoyed things that require endurance. I've always loved long rock climbs, and anything that really requires me to reach inside and see what is there. (part of the reason I signed up for another IM ;)

The shorter races, for me, just don't seem to hold the allure or are as exciting.

I like the half IM's though. That is a great distance. Can't wait to do another one this summer. I'll probably keep doing at least one of those a year just for fun. And maybe do an IM distance ever other year or ever 3 years or something. (as long as I can do them)

Heck, I said I'd wait 2 years before trying another one, and signed up for another IM race only 3 weeks or so after my first one ;) [short memory helps I guess]

What was I saying? heh

Yeah, I doubt I'd trade my experiance doing the IM for just about anything. It was a great day and I'll have my "pretty pictures" of that day in my head for a long time.

Trae

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Trae McCombs
TSR - Sponsored by the Masses. Racing for the hell of it.
Ironman Finisher 2005 -- 14:09:18

Maybe you should ask Kate Allen which is tougher?

Or Simon Lessing, or Chris Mccormack, or Michellie Jones, or Joanna Zeiger, or......
oh never mind.

it's not about which is tougher in terms of doing the event. it is what is tougher to win. my money is on the olympics. anyway ironman you can afford to be a CRAP swimmer. olympic distance you can't/ olympic distance athletes are more well rounded...therefore REAL triathletes ;)

Except for all that wheel sucking.

so you dont think olympic distance athletes are any good at cycling? kieran doe has gone 2.02 in a half ironman on bike and kept up with chris mccormack at roth. now him and bevan docherty came in at exactly the same time in round taupo road race. do road races count in determining who the strongest cyclists are? or is it only time trials? did u actually watch the athens mens olympic race? that race was won on the bike (pretty much). just so happens the guys who came in 1st, 2nd, 3rd n 4th are also extremely good runners. not to mention pretty good swimmers in triathlon terms.

People do tend to assume, when my shirt has something about 'triathlon' on it that it is to do with the race they see on tv. I want to collect the whole set - this coming year as well as the usual couple of olys and a half IM I'm going to try a sprint and a full IM.

Now, I wonder how it's going to be; then, I'll know.
My first marathon was completed in a way that horrible agony led to joy; my first oly was such a positive experience, despite having to walk for 3k thanks to intestinal cramping, that I immediately thought of myself as 'a triathlete who also does marathons'; after my first half IM I was filled with such happiness and sense of achievement, despite actually being in tears twice on the race course - it was that positive experience that led me to dare to try the full IM. I want to do an early season sprint because I don't want to spend too much time in water that will still be rather cold, and because I want to see what it is like to redline it for an hour and a quarter, or however long this old bod takes.

I'm still not sure I actually 'want' to do an IM - last year was a poor year for me, stressed, tired, likely overtrained; I didn't qualify, and had to travel to Penticton to sign up for '06 - but I *need* to do it; need to prove to myself that it is possible, not just to endure, but to organise getting there, getting fitter, staying fit. Then I'll have the whole set, and I'll be able to choose which I like better.

When I did my first marathon it was to prove I could to myself - I didn't really think it was possible - I had to do it to believe that it could be. The distance is still mind-boggling - it's a boring drive, let alone being able to run it! I certainly didn't plan to do more than one, since I thought that dying on the spot was a real possibility. But as soon as I finished I recognised that it was something I wanted to do more of. We'll see if that might also be true of IM.

I used to hold forth that the real triathlon would be if one could run a marathon, perform Schubert's Winterreise, and develop an elegant mathematical proof all in the same day. That would be a bit more balanced, don't you think? This swim/bike/run stuff is crazy! And here I am, already thinking of each workout in terms of how it will affect something over eight months away.

Well done, staying away from such madness! j

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"I'm going to stick to my sardines" - Cassidy
"Others took their lemons and stood up and walked." - Kestrelkerri
"I will never know quite why I set out on the run. I guess because it was next." - Nachocheese
"No, just to people on the Forum. My athletes are the control group." - Paulo Sousa
" Actually, I am naturally an Asshole....not unlike the way you are naturally an idiot." IRONLOBO

"Personally, I think the shorter distances are a ton of fun, and I don't think you will find any lack of support here on ST is you stick with the minis."

"Now get your ass to the back of the bus."
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The back of the bus ain't so bad. At least there aren't any fat 14 hour Ironmen here.

SAC I love the sarcasm...keep it coming. Just making sure you weren't a thin skinned whiney euro. Any body willing to come here and earn their keep is fine by me...move to Texas and I'll buy you a beer.

Slick,

I think I am being honest, and I am the opposite of you in that I am usually very careful about what I say and rarely renig, or go back on a decision. I did not say that I will never do one, just that to this point and for about 18 more years I don't see how it would be humanly possible for me without sacrificing more than I am willing to and knowing that I haven't had the slightest desire to do it. So many people ask me why do it if your not going to do IM, and that is why I started this thread to see if it was just me, or not.

Thanks Tribodyboarder, but I don't and didn't insinuate that those who embark on IM don't have lives. True, mine is full to the brim and I am squeezing every second out of every day and loving it, but anyone who can do the same and get the time in to go long...my hat's off to you, but I don't want to be in your shoes (bike or running for that matter) Good luck in April and post your race report.

thank you also for posting....I had a very difficult time balancing work, grad school, and training for "only" a HIM...and then only to get hurt 2 weeks prior to my goal race....is the 8 months of recovering from my injury worth the training for one race? hardly. My doc told me to get smart and stick to sprints and Oly's. And, I can still have a social life...because then I'm not running to physical therapy all the time too!

and I agree, IM sets are fun...if you limit the fly!

Hookem,

You are not alone. I also have no desire to finish an Ironman distance event.I love training for and racing in sprint and Oly distance triathlons but I rather find it unhealthy to race in an Ironman distance event.

Finishing and racing an Ironman is two different things.

As far as Ironman being the pinnacle of this sport...well let's just say I would rather finish an Oly distance under 2 hours(which btw takes a lot more training) rather than finishing an Ironman in 15-16 hours.

But everybody is different,whatever floats your boat.

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I see obsessed people.

Lou,

Nice letter in Inside Tri. You're famous!!! : )

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Andy

'You'd be surprised how many people violate this simple principle every day of their lives and try to fit square pegs into round holes, ignoring the clear reality that Thinsg Are As They Are.'

Tribodyboarder---"About Ironman being the pinnacle, what about the Deca-Ironman? Wouldn't THAT be the pinnacle? I'm thinking for those folks a mere single ironman is a walk in the park!"

Going to tell you a little secret--the deca is NOT the pinnacle, not even for the IUTAers. Many/most have no desire to do the distance (I believe only 61 official finishers to date), and after doing it and going back next year for more, I am still uncertain what I am seeking. For days you strip away EVERYTHING and you only have just you--its a scary place to be and no way is it the pinnacle--I wouldn't consider it triathlon. It's a unique journey and the bonds you make with those with you is unmatched to anything I have experienced. Something I couldn't find at the IM/double/triple ect distance. Ironically during the deca I found the same pain I feel during a sprint/oly/half, and the same mental test as I do during Iron. All I kept saying over and over during the deca was how much I was looking forward to the quintuple (half deca) same words I say when I Iron how much I look forward to the half. However, the truly humbling that happens I have never felt during any event but the deca. I wouldn't wish the deca on anybody, it is something you would want to do deep down, and trust me when I say this, anyone that WANTS to finish a deca can, the numbers just seem daunting, the task is not. I trained more when I did Iron than I do for double on up. The deca is a mind game, the Iron is physical torture.

To the original poster: I respect ALL distances, and have learned and utilized so many tidbits from the beginner to the elite. That to me is what is so cool about the Tri lifestyle. If you don't want to do Iron, don't do it. Sprints are hard as hell, and I sit back in awe at those that nail them week after week. Of course nothing tops Hunter Kemper in my eyes :-) so you know how I stand on this one.

Great info Eileen. I really don't know how you muster the motivation to spend an entire 7 days (or however many days it takes you) doing one "race". It's humbling, and when I'm doing my first IM, I'll be thinking about your race report from Mexico that you posted a while back to keep me going!

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world record I think is just shy of 8 days. Try just shy of 14 days for me (thanks to health bs issues--it's not healthy!) I am planning on cracking 12 in France in June--provided there is a race. Thats why I don't consider deca a 'race'. I consider it an experience. After just a few short days you know what order people are finishing in, you don't get that during races.

You will do wonderful at the IM. Work on the mind end because the physical will be there when you show up, it will be up to the mind to get you in the zone and hold the zone and handle variety on the fly!

If you can work in some sprints/olys I always found those very beneficial for Iron. Something about that speedwork you wouldn't do to yourself on your own training.

I've always thought this sport is a vortex. It's pretty easy to get sucked into the drive to complete an ironman. I've always said that I won't get sucked into that vortex, but the fact is that it is an amazingly difficult feat to accomplish for most mortals and yet mortals who train seriously achieve it all the time. And, I won't deny I'd love to be one of those people running through the chute of cheering people in the dark and leaping across the finish line (ala AndyPants). That said, the reality is that it requires an extended period of intense training that is hard on the body and especially hard on the family. I find marathon training overwhelming at times in both respects, so I know I'm not ready to tackle the IM beast.

fulla

I am with you. I have only done Sprint and Oly's. But I also have passed on many good waves to train.

You are smart to keep your Immune system in check. Most people take their health for granted. You can't afford to. Congrads on your IM's

Bob

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Train safe & smart
Bob

Jay

Good point . There will always be a longer race! Were does it end.

Bob

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Train safe & smart
Bob

You're in denial. Your sub-conscious wants to do an IM, the very fact the topic has been raised is enough to suggest so.

I'll get to do an IM one day. I actually qualified for IM Australia next year but passed on the spot for pretty much the same reason many have given here - Time commitment.

I have no interest in doing all that training and taking the time away from other aspects of my life to just 'make up the numbers'. If I decide to compete in the event, I would like to do it to the best of my ability at the time, not in some half-baked way dragging my ass around the course in 15hrs and not enjoying the struggle. That in no way implies I'm intent on winning anything, toping my AG or whatever benchmark you care to apply, but knowing within myself I could have done better with the right preparation. Therefore it would feel a somewhat empty or wasted effort.

With a young family and demanding job, I cannot justify the demands that doing an IM to my best efforts would require. You could say I would do 3 things badly (father, profession, IM) rather than 1 thing well. That's obviously a value judgement I have made, whereas I know of many who have done the exact opposite, and that's fine and a decision I respect. One day I'll have all the time I need to do an IM - if I really want, just not at the moment.

Why not keep it on the backburner, you'll do one eventually, afterall you're still talking about it!

Ironman distance is for the old farts and the guys that can't get off their bike and run a 31 min 10k. But since they don't have much speed they can go a long way.

If you don't want to do an Ironman so what? To be an Ironman you really only have to swim for an hour or so , ride your bike for 6 and a half, and walk till midnight. I would trade my two top 10% finishes in Ironman 82 and 86 just to once feel how it would be to go a sub 1hr 50 min International distance race or slam down a 30 min 10 k.

I think if any average joe trains a few years doing an Ironman is possible, but not many people will ever experience the need for speed and break even a 1:58 for an OLY event.

That is my story and I am sticking to it.

Eileen Steil

You got my respect. GO!!!

Good luck Bob

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Train safe & smart
Bob

Is NM close enough for you to owe me a Coke? :-D

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I just think it's great that you do any kind of triathlon as it is quite an achievement especially if you have overcome obstacles to get there, what ever they may have been! Well done if it was just a sprint or right up to you nut-job ultra distance freaks!

What I'm trying to tell you is that, yes, you can have your cake and eat it too. Ironman training doesn't need to and shouldn't take over your life. Most weeks I train less than 10hrs. I have a demanding job with night and weekend call and I have 3 very active kids and I run the entire swim program in our community. I never miss their events and I train when everyone else is sleeping. It takes a little extra discipline to get up at 5am or 4:30am every morning but it is worth it. I have won 4 sprint/oly diatance overall and finished top 3 in many others. I would trade all of those for just one of my Ironman finishes. Just look at Ray Britt, he has qualified for Hawaii multiple times on like 6-7 hrs training per week. You just have to train smart.

Why would you post on a site populated in the majority with IMers and state that you have no desire to do an Ironman yet you would do a 1/2 IM? I'm not buying it. Either you are trolling or you are rationalizing.

While I respect your commitment to the sport, a deca is a "fringe" sport. It is by no means the pinnacle of triathlon. I am surprised how you people struggle with the concept of pinnacle. For Ex. the Dayton 500 is the pinnacle of stock car racing. The world cup is the pinnacle of soccer. The superbowl is the pinnacle of football. The olympics is the pinnacle of track and field. Kona is the pinnacle of triathlon. Just because there are some other obscure super long races doesn't mean anyone cares about them. 5K's, 10K's, sprints, and Oly's are for suckers!

"Anyone else enjoy the shorter distances for what they are, and have no desire to take it to the IM level?"

I'm with you on this. These days, an olympic tri seems like an IM to me. I barely have enough time to train for a 1/2 mile swim. The longest I ever go in practice is 1,000 meters.
i get much more personal satisfaction in placing in my age group than I do completing long distances. If I can get this personal satisfaction from doing 5ks, 10ks, duathlons and sprint tris, I have no desire spending much more time training for longer distance events.
Don't get me wrong. I have high respect for the athletic and mental achievement of Imers. It is just not something I want to do (or train for).

Ahem - not necessary to diss IM'ers to make the point that you prefer the shorter stuff. Have you tried it? And whether you have or haven't - it's uncool, and unsportsmanlike to diss IM. Bad boy!

Ahem, fine if IM wasn't magical for you, but if you ask most IM'ers - I'd bet they'd tell you it is.

And, not cool, and unsportsmanlike to diss anybody who happens to be slower than you, Show some respect for your fellow triathletes, man.

So, stick to the short ones, we don't want you at IM with that attitude.

"I want to collect the whole set" - Beautifully explicated, John B.

Triathlon is a wide range of experiences: sample it to the fullest at your own pace then select which parts are best for you.

I think if any average joe trains a few years doing an Ironman is possible, but not many people will ever experience the need for speed and break even a 1:58 for an OLY event.

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Well said...

As I stated before doing an Ironman just for the sake of finishing under 17hrs is possible for almost everybody..you do not need the long training hours or commitments and all that....Ironman concept is totally commercialized otherwise time limits would be 14 hrs or less.

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I see obsessed people.

I ran for fun and fitness for 20 years, never completing anything longer than the falmouth road race (7.1 miles)
Then a neighbor told me she'd run the disney half. I looked at her and said damn if she can do it so can I . so I did. then the next year I did the whole thing. Never in 20 years of 'jogging' (I won't call what I do running) did I ever think I'd complete a marathon. Now my goal is to get under 4 hours . I've come close.

a few years later some guys are know started riding bikes. so I joined em.
when they said let's do a century , I did't hesitate for a second.

then they said hey let's do tris. I resisted, made excuses, really did NOT want to do it. I hated swimming. Well a year and half later I'm looking back at a year in which I compelted 3 olys in around 3 hours each.

I don't think I'll ever do a IM, but I 'm sure as hell not gonna say I won't someday. The peer pressure you allude to about completing an IM is not a bad thing. Without my group of friends , I wouldn't have got in the water for my first sprint.

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"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn

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Nothing wrong with not wanting to do one and staying with shorter distances. I think more and more people are signing up for IM's these days because they feel like they have to. I've done 5 IM's and took a break two years ago to go back to short-course racing for a year just to do something different where I started to feel burnt out. It gave me a new appreciation and respect for the shorter distances and what it takes to do well in them.

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"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

As far as Ironman being the pinnacle of this sport...well let's just say I would rather finish an Oly distance under 2 hours(which btw takes a lot more training) rather than finishing an Ironman in 15-16 hours.

apples and oranges ... I'd rather finish an IM under 10 than an Oly in 2:40.

Real question is whether you'd rather finish an IM under 10 or an Oly under 2? I'd say the IM under 10 would take more training, and would be viewed as more of an accomplishment by most in the sport.

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

Most Americans think "bigger is better." So I think a lot of participants would rather say they finished an Ironman than put in the effort to get faster at the shorter races. It would be like if you were tell friends that you ran a 5K in 15 minutes, compared to telling them that you ran a marathon in 4 hours. They'd be more impressed by the slower, longer marathon.

Having said that, I did my first IM this year after 7 seasons in the sport. I always said I'd never do it, but I was glad I tried out the event. However I don't plan to do it again any time soon: the time commitment is unrealistic for me to do year after year, and I am better suited to short course racing. I do not think people should get sucked into the "vortex" of racing longer & longer. For me, it was not a life changing experience to become an Ironman.

I disagree with the idea that Ironman is the "pinnacle" and that comment really pissed me off. But I think that because it is the only distance that has any sort of World Championships which include the allure of qualifying, etc. it can seem that way. If someone gets Age Group Nationals or 1/2 IM Nationals to somehow really become something worth qualifying for, we may see more interest in these distances.

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Suffering on the the bike is always more fun than suffering on the run.

I think you summed it up perfectly. The allure is definately in the mystique surrounding "marathon" or "ironman". Most people will probably admit that they will never be "fast", but can aquire admiration or self satisfaction by going long. And all that really takes is time in training. After my first IM this year, I can honestly say that while I loved every second of the race and the training lifestyle leading up to it, in terms of payoff it was diminishing returns. Too much time & money, too much obsession (which was my own fault) and a huge "what now?" when it all came to an end.

I'll pass on the IM next year, and I'm really looking forward to the local sprints & oly.

I can go long. Anyone can go long. Going fast is the greater challenge.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

When you read this thread, you can tell whose immature and who isn't!!!

Well, I've only been in triathlon for 4 years. But I've been dreaming of IM for the past 20. Finnaly did Wisconsin and to be honest...I hated it.

I enjoy the occasional 9+ hour bike ride or a 20+ mile run. I would swim around Key west just for fun. But doing an IM was one of the worst experiences of my life. Left me in the doldrums of depression for months. I'd be ok not ever doing one again except that I have mannaged to do well (ie win) at every other distance. So, I'll probably do another one...but I wont like it ;)

Daytona 500 is the pinnacle event of stock car races. Fine.

I have no problem with the copncept that World Cup is the pinnacle of soccer.

And in both of these examples, the "pinnacle" that you describe is THE SAME REALM as all the contests of that sport.

The Olyimpics is the pinnacle of track and field, sure. But would you say that the marathon is the pinnacle of track and field? Of course not. So then to say that Ironman is the pinnacle of triathlon is equally absurd.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

"to say that Ironman is the pinnacle of triathlon is equally absurd. "

Simon Whitfield is much more known by the general public in Canada than is Peter Reid or any other Canadian IM triathlete. Winning an Olympic gold goes a long way, much further than winning IM Kona it seems.

True, but the olympic coverage that Whitfield probably recieved had more to do with that that anything else. I'd bet if you put an IM event in the olympics, you (the collective canadian public) wouldn't even know who was competing in the shorter event.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I agree, but I appreciate all the feedback whether positive, negative or other. There are many points of view and getting a glimpse into as many posted here on this thread has been a treat. This was not a troll, and I don't think it was an affirmation though it has sort of become that, but more like a week moment after another conversation with a non-triathlete about non sports related topics that culminated in "so you do those Iron Man races in Hawaii that take a couple of days?" I just snapped and posted. I wouldn't have been suprised if the post rolled off the page in five minutes.



By the way...I love chasing those mule deer around your neck of the woods. I hunted right behind the Jesse James movie set this year. Have you been up to try and get a look at Brad Pitt yet?

I agree that your comparison is a little more fair, but look at it this way:

Theoretical 2 Hour Oly Race: :21 1.5k (1:24/100m) - :1 T1 - :60 40k (24.8mph) - :1 T2 - :37 10k (5:58/mile)

Theoretical 10 Hour IM: 1:05 1.2mi (1:42/100m) - :2 T2 - 5:21 112mi (20.9mph) - :2 T2 - 3:30 26.2mi (8:01/mile)

I would never turn my nose up at someone's 10 Hour Ironman, but I just don't find any of the splits or paces impressive. I realize that the difficulty lies in stringing the three events together and you can't really analyze each event individually but I think the 2 Hour Oly paces are much more impressive even if you look at them as standalone events.

Add to that the fact that Ironman is a glorified duathlon and I just don't have an interest in it either. I am not even a swimmer, but at least make the swim have some sort of an impact on the race. A lot of ironman athletes like to snub draft legal ITU racing because the bike is a 'draft fest' and 'those guys can't even bike'. Look at your event, you don't even have to be able to swim a lick to make it to Kona which according to some in this thread is the 'Pinnacle' of the sport. It is no less a two event sport than ITU racing is.

But, different strokes for different folks, there is certainly room for all of us in this sport and I think we are all just out to have some fun anyway.

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"The more you sweat today, the less you bleed tomorrow"

Someday I'll walk through an IM, for the experience. I'm fairly sure I can do 16:30, and get full value for my entry fee ;-)

It's not on the agenda for the next few years, I won't have the time for IM training. If you look at the guys who are competitive on 10hrs/week or less, you'll find a lot of bigger weeks than that in their past: or some very deep single-sport background..

Also, my life is getting shorter by the day, I've already spent significant chunks of it running. No regrets, but there are other things to do now.

That said, I've been hovering around the 2:20 Oly on 3 hrs/week, I plan on "pushing it up" (hah!) to 4-5hrs/wk in a final attempt this year. If I don't hit my goals on July 8th, then I'll do the Boulder HIM just for grins.

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

As far as if Ironman is the pinnacle of triathlon, I'd have to say that this is a personal decision. Quite simply, you KNOW if Ironman is your calling if after watching the NBC broadcasts of the Hawaii Ironman (no matter how cheesy at times it can get), if it evokes/stirs emotions from within. Those that have experienced this sensation know what I'm talking about!

That said I have a real problem with your question of choosing which one you would rather achieve: sub 10 hour IM or sub 2 hour Olympic tri. I have competed in 7 IM's and just this year broke the 10 hour barrier; next year I plan on breaking the 2 hour barrier for an Olympic distance tri. I will do more IM's (see previous paragraph), but am taking a break from IM to compete in shorter tris: sprints, Olympics, and Xterra races. It makes for a good change of pace, both physically and mentally.

Just to do a triathlon is great, and for people to put pressure on others to do IM is ridiculous. When people ask me if they should do an IM, I ask them to watch an Ironman broadcast and I ask them how they felt while watching it. You just know if it's for you. Every distance of triathlon is its own puzzle, as you have to figure out how to "race" it well. For some, short distance is their thing, for others IM is their thing. Both are equally impressive and an accomplishment.

General comments about the thread ...

[1] You don't wanna do an IM race, don't. Whether you do or not really doesn't matter to anyone other than you anyway.

[2] To all that seem to feel that IM prep takes a huge amount of time (weekly time). Have you read any of the numerous threads of people that do well (relative) on training time that is more likely associated with "sprint racing"?

[3] One insinuation bothers me, (summation) "IM training takes up so much time that I am not willing to trade my family, life, etc for the training. This accomplishes 3 things (intended or not): (1) It validates the non-challenge of not doing an IM race, (2) It insults those that do by suggesting that they are sacrificng vital parts of their lives to do it, and lastly (3) it places people in a hierarchy based on the assumptions of how they are living their life and their priorities.

[4] How many hours/week are the 1:50 to 2:30 Oly triathletes putting in during an average week? Compare that to the IM averages of many IM folks here, and I bet it's be surprising? I'm wondering if it takes more training time to [1] get faster at the Oly distance, than it does to [2] gain endurance for the IM distance. I'm guessing it actually takes less time and less focused training to "go long" (focus on finishing) than it does to get really good at Oly racing (for the majority of people). Be interesting to hear from those with more "know".

[5] Are the majority of people doing Oly races because they enjoy that distance or because they feel that's the distance they have time for? Seems to be quite a few on both sides, wondering about a consensus.

[6] How can a person say that Kona is not the pinnacle of the sport? One may disagree/argue whether or not it should be, but certainly not whether it is or not.

As others have mentioned "collect the whole set". Interesting way of looking at it.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

I think "accomplishment" must be viewed in a number of different contexts: the best you know you can do; the best you can do in the eyes of your peers, or others; the best, compared to some external standard.

The best you know you can do has nothing to do with genetic endowment, nor even the time you have for training - it's very flexible and quite subjective.

In the eyes of your peers could be as broad as non-triathlete drinking buddies, strangers that see your t-shirt as you stroll through the mall, or as specific as other triathletes who have posted similar times to yours in similar, recent races.

The external standard is usually how you place, and even age group placement is external, since people's native ability varies so much. Actually being able to finish an ironman in the allotted time is also such a standard, and you get a medal for it.

The only point in dissing people outside of your "accomplishment" category, as I see it, is: is it funny? And even then...
*Within* your category, by all means let the gauntlets be thrown down!

In my first ever race of any kind (a 20k road race in 2001) I noticed that the people coming in close to last still looked like athletes - because they were athletes. But then I define an athlete as someone who not only gives their all in the pursuit of "altior fortiter celeriter" , but by training lifts their ability to get still higher, stronger or faster.

Another may define as an athlete one who is strong, fast or nimble enough to make money at it, in a small or large arena. Or a triathlete as one who has done Kona under 10 hours.

Just so long as we know what we;re talking about, and why.

One day maybe I'll break 2.30 in an oly; I will never go sub 2. I will be disappointed (or maybe not) if my IM takes longer than 13 hours. I may not go as fast as you, but I'll put my heart and soul into it because, damn, I'm a triathlete! I'm someone who, if the invaders were coming and I had to do a Laura Secord or a Paul Revere, would be able to swim the lake, cycle through the lines and then run over the mountain to pass the message along. Ahahahaha! Heee-ahahaha!

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"I'm going to stick to my sardines" - Cassidy
"Others took their lemons and stood up and walked." - Kestrelkerri
"I will never know quite why I set out on the run. I guess because it was next." - Nachocheese
"No, just to people on the Forum. My athletes are the control group." - Paulo Sousa
" Actually, I am naturally an Asshole....not unlike the way you are naturally an idiot." IRONLOBO

My apologies if I offended ones feelings. I wrote my feelings and everything I wrote is fairly true, and a little sarcasm. The name of this forum is Slowtwitch usually refering to the guys who lack fasttwitch muscles Related to speed. That was me. In HS track there were about 4 guys that couldn't run the 100-400 meters to save our lives, we made up the "distance" guys and got to run miles and miles while the sprint guys ran for 10sec to 1 min and rested..
In college swimming there were 4 or 5 guys that could not get down the pool and back in 22 seconds or under 48 seconds for 4 lengths. They had a nice event called the 200 Fly, 500, 1,000, and at conference the 1,650 just for us. But by Gawd we could out last those guys.
I am just saying the guys with the need for speed probably never really understood what was up with a race more than a few min long. And I think I respect a guy who can go a 1:55 Oly even as much or maybe more than an under 10 hr Ironman.
As to the old farts, I are one and so are probably 80% of the Slowtwitchers. If there are exclusive groups of young and old, young stops at 25 years. If the average life expectancy is 75 years. Young is 0-25, middle age is 25-50, and old is 50-75. True but not what we want to hear.

As far as the Pinnacle of the sport. I was around and competing when Ironman was way out there on the fringe of lunacy vs sport and people really wondered if we were not to good in the head. I can't tell you the number of times between 1982 and 1990 people asked me why anyone would want to do an Ironman? Now people don't ask that as much any more. In the future maybe Ironman will lose some luster and the Ultraman or double Iron will become the race of the real tough guys. I think 90% of Slowtwitch readers could finish an Ironman. I doubt if 10% could line up for a double Ironman and finish at all.
As far as dissing folks, that is what is fun in life. I trash talk all my workout buddies all the time, that is half the fun and keeps the pecking order in line. Have a good holidays. G

TT good points. I agree with almost everything you wrote. Especially

[3] One insinuation bothers me, (summation) "IM training takes up so much time that I am not willing to trade my family, life, etc for the training. This accomplishes 3 things (intended or not): (1) It validates the non-challenge of not doing an IM race, (2) It insults those that do by suggesting that they are sacrificng vital parts of their lives to do it, and lastly (3) it places people in a hierarchy based on the assumptions of how they are living their life and their priorities.

and

[4] How many hours/week are the 1:50 to 2:30 Oly triathletes putting in during an average week? Compare that to the IM averages of many IM folks here, and I bet it's be surprising? I'm wondering if it takes more training time to [1] get faster at the Oly distance, than it does to [2] gain endurance for the IM distance. I'm guessing it actually takes less time and less focused training to "go long" (focus on finishing) than it does to get really good at Oly racing (for the majority of people). Be interesting to hear from those with more "know".

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Striving to have sex more than 66 times per year

I find marathon training overwhelming at times in both respects, so I know I'm not ready to tackle the IM beast.

I found racing a marathon to be harder than finishing an IM, in terms of pain and soreness when I was finished. The time to prepare was longer for an IM but if you are just out to finish, most of the training is pretty easy pace. Racing an IM would be a different story.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

Real question is whether you'd rather finish an IM under 10 or an Oly under 2? I'd say the IM under 10 would take more training, and would be viewed as more of an accomplishment by most in the sport.


IMO: much more impressive to go sub - 2:00 than sub - 10:00. I did a quick search: at Memphis in May (Olympic distance race with fast course and a large, competitive field), only 17 guys broke the 2 hour barrier. At IM-Florida, 128 people were under 10 hours.

Erik and TT,

Assertion #3 could not be any further from the truth or the point of this thread. I figured there would be a few others here to balance the overwhelming assumers outside slowtwitch that all "know" a triathlete isn't a triathlete until they do IM.

This thing has taken on a life of its own and I am blown away by the different points of view. I insinuate nothing, and since i typed the damn thing I know whether or not I insinuated anything. As for Hierarchies...I am a plumber. Do you know where plumbers are on a hierarchy? Not only do I know where I fall in any "hierarchy", but I am comfortable there and in my own skin.

All I was looking for were a few people who think going short is enough for them. How anyone can distort this into something to be offended by is beyond me. I was gracious and complimentary of any and all IM'ers, even the swimming kind. I don't get people who wake up offended, become more defensive and go to bed irate. If your day began in search of the daily offense and I provided a target to tag it to then I am happy to oblige. Don't insert insinuations where there are none.

Thanks for all the Points of View. I will let this thread die now.

Hookem

You do realize that if we are ever hanging out at a race and someone takes a swing at you that I am not going to stick up for you don't you? I will help you up and laugh at you. Such a smart ass. I love it.

I would never turn my nose up at someone's 10 Hour Ironman, but I just don't find any of the splits or paces impressive.

yeah, you're right - Matt Carpenter won the Leadville 100 in 15:42:59, breaking the previous record. That 9:25 pace just doesn't impress me. Hell, anybody could do that. Give me a break.

my 9yo son swam a 1:12 100m last year, so you're 1:24 sucks; a 60min 40k wouldn't place you near the top of a local TT race, again that sucks; I'm a broke-down working stiff who can break 37 mins in a 10K, again that sucks. come on, give me some times that are impressive.

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

I agree fully with everything you said. Do you think it will take you more or less training to break 2 than it did to break 10?

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

Hookem, I don't think this was directed at you. At least I thought of it as more of a "general" statement.

p.s. if the longhorns and buckeyes had a rematch, I think we would win this time. :-p

Good luck in pasadena!!

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Striving to have sex more than 66 times per year

Your mistake is using the Florida course as the standard (unless MIM is the easiest course in the Oly circuit). Compare the results of IMWI and the numbers are equal at 17.

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

Point taken. I'm not sure what races would be comparable. MIM is considered a fast course (my p.r. course). I still think sub-2 is more impressive, but as you point out the times become pretty arbitrary given the different courses (i.e. Lanzarote or Wildflower olympic).

Well Hookem, got to hand it to you, you sure got a response to this one. Didn't think there would be so many insecure about what they are doing!!!!!

This is the way I look at it, I have played around with the sport over the past years but have never signed up for a race. Well over the summer I got to thinking. What is something that I have never done that I want to do? IM came to mind.

My wife bought me a new Tri Bike for Christams and a bunch of other gear. I have been a runner and swimmer for years. I personaly like long distance events. It takes more thinking and motivation to get through the event. I am sure I will get blasted for my post, but the way I look at it I never enter into something until I am prepared.

I do not want to do anything shorter than a half IM. Well, maybe the tri at Paris Island only because I am a former Marine.

Pain is not weakness leaving the body, Pain is that feeling you get when you know you failed.

Dude... if we're hanging out, with you close by nobody will DARE to take a swing at me! :-D

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

"I'd bet if you put an IM event in the olympics,"

Would never happen. It's too long an event to televise and without drafting the field would get too stretched out to make interesting TV drama. IM actually makes for boring TV. Why else do you think NBC throws in all the sob stories in their coverage? In the Olympic distance they have found a formula to make triathlon exciting to watch and palpatible to the general public, IM is more of a cult sport with relatively little appeal to people not involved directly in the sport.

I really wasn't trying to be argumentative, just presenting a different opinion.

Your Leadville and 100 Free comparison is also apples and oranges. (And by the way my :54 100scy free, while still pathetic, trumps your sons 1:12 ;) ) Is it any more impressive if I am also a broke-down working class stiff?

You have obviously sworn your allegiance to the Ironman and that is great. I (like the original poster) prefer to race shorter events, to each his own.

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"The more you sweat today, the less you bleed tomorrow"

sorry to be argumentative, you're absolutely correct - to each his own. Two final thoughts:

1) I'm sure glad we're comparing your swim time with my son's ;-)

2) Happy holidays, and good luck with the upcoming tri season.

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

hamish carter and bevan docherty both have huge profiles in nz. what distance do they compete in? ;)

>>hamish carter and bevan docherty both have huge profiles in nz. what distance do they compete in? ;)<<

Yes, but who is THE Kiwi triathlete.....Erin Baker. Ironman.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

When you think about it an IM is a ridiculous event, and I am a certified tri-junkie and in my time have done 9. Been in the sport for a very long time, but "retired" back in 1997 when my son was born. Saw the writing on the wall, that I could not be the parent I wanted to be and keep on doing what I was doing in Triathlon.

The obsession with IM is a bit over the top. Even an Olympic distance race takes most/many folks close to 3 hours to do - how long do they need to go?

Explain the IM distance to any of your man-in-the-street friends and they will either look at you like you are insane or their eyes will gloss over like they can't even comprehend what you are talking about!

It's great to take on a challenge, but there is a massive investment in time, energy and money required to even get to the starting line of that challenge. I recall reading somewhere that it costs about $10,000 to do an IM when you factor in ALL the costs - not just entry and travel.

Just some thoughts.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Hookem,

I was making general comments to those that say things like "I'll never do an IM b/c doing one would take away too much time from my family, free time, etc". By saying that, a person IS (indirectly saying), "Anyone that has a family and does an IM race is sacrificing their family for their training". The case may very well be that they are, but (as posted here many times), there are quite a few folks doing IM races on <10h/wk training.

Secondly, as I pointed out above, I highly doubt that for many AG'ers that the amount of weekly time invested between Oly distance racers and IM racers is that much (if any). It's not like IM comps train 30h/wk and Oly comps train 12h/wk. Training time and distance don't appear to exist in a direct relationship.

I bring this up b/c IMO it's important for "both sides" to realise that the 'other side' (either the long or short course dudes) is often times training just as much and sacrificing just as much. In terms of "hierarchy" or "respect" based on amount/quality of training, both sides are equal (IMO) but differ in preference. So, I'm not seeing where "lack of training time" or "unwillingness to scrifice family" is all that valid of an excuse for not doing an IM race.

It's not a bad thing to just say "I'll never do an IM race b/c I don't prefer the long course", rather than saying "I won't do an IM race b/c the time commitment is too much & I really love my kids" ... and then go out and put in a 14h/wk for Oly distance training.

That's all I am saying.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

"Yes, but who is THE Kiwi triathlete.....Erin Baker. Ironman. "

Are you speaking for all of New Zealand Cathy? I'd bet the Olympic triathletes would likely be better known by the average person on the street in N.Z. As already posted, Whitfield is definately the best known triathlete in Canada by far by virtue of winning the Olympics.

Although I like participating in Ironman (the key word is participate), I love RACING at half Ironman and Olympic. These are real races for me. Ironman is one long day of survival. The shorter events are way more fun.

...and to triple threat's point, I do just as much training for half Ironman or Olympic as for Ironman. In fact when I raced Olympic (or focused on it), I had lots of specific swim, bike hill and running track workouts that I had to do mid week that took more time than my basic Ironman stuff. I still went moderately long on the weekend to be competitive (or so I thought...).

In any event, I do sacrifice family time to race Ironman, but everyone in my family is at peace with this (including myself). At least I waste less time doing Ironman training than my buddies who play golf all weekend :-)

"Yes, but who is THE Kiwi triathlete.....Erin Baker. Ironman."

Indeed, Baker did Ironman races and had a few very good ones, but back in those days the top triathletes were not one trick ponies, they did it all and Erin Baker was a stand-out at the Olympic Distance as well. She also could, no suprise, run like the wind!

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Erin Baker also ran 2:37 for the marathon. Yes, back in the late 80's/early 90's everyone raced long and short course, and generally all the long course times were faster in the pro field...funny how that works.

erin baker more known for her exploits that werent ironman...she didnt care too much for the distance. that's what i read in an interview anyway.

there is also rick wells...




and in nz currently hamish carter and bevan docherty ARE triathlon. nearly EVERYONE knows who hamish carter is. he is easily one of the most recognisable sporting personalities in nz. he is also a very gregarious person it seems. if anyone deserved to win the olympics it was him. probably most deserving triathlete to have won anything in recent memory (other than cameron brown hehe)

"Secondly, as I pointed out above, I highly doubt that for many AG'ers that the amount of weekly time invested between Oly distance racers and IM racers is that much (if any). It's not like IM comps train 30h/wk and Oly comps train 12h/wk. Training time and distance don't appear to exist in a direct relationship"

Cathy,

Good point. There is a relationship and it's pretty straight-forward, An Olympic Distance triathlon, even a sprint triathlon is almost a 100% Aerobic event, and for any 100% aerobic event the bigger your aerobic engine is, the better/faster you will be. How do you make that engine bigger, train long and hard. So generally speaking any triathlete, competeing at any standard triathlon distance( sprint, Oly, or IM) will benefit from longer more voluminus training.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Olympic under 2 or Ironman under 10, which is the bigger accomplishment ?

I'd say Ironman under 10 for me, simply because I have never gotten there. I've been under 2 once and close to 2 many times. I doubt I will ever get under 2 again simply because I no longer have the raw closing run speed that I used to. Ironman under 10 is still a distinct hope on the right course.

So as it stands today, Ironman under 10 would be a huge achievement for me, simply cause Olympic under 2 is a lost cause.

My biggest goal though is half Ironman under 4:25. This year I went 4:27...its in reach...bring on Demi Esprit 2006.

"After my first IM while in the med tent I told the nurse how stupid the race was and everybody who does it is nuts and I would NEVER under any circumstances do another one.

She just laughed and said "that's what they all say, see you next year."

Wise words."

Yeah, this pretty well summarizes it. I've said this on my 4 visits to the med tent.

It is like Hotel California...you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...

All I was looking for were a few people who think going short is enough for them. How anyone can distort this into something to be offended by is beyond me.

You realize we are on Slowtwitch don't you.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

For me, that is not a simple yes or no. In the past few years, I've been around 2:05 for the Olympic distance. This race has been about 3-4 weeks leading up to the Ironman qualifier I competed in, so I was carrying a good amount of fatigue into it. Starting from nothing, I would say that the time commitment to break 10 hours in the IM and 2 hours in the Olympic distance would be pretty comparable. However, since I've been racing HIM's and IM's for the past 5 years, I've built up a really good aerobic base which should allow me to break 2 hours with less training (timewise). As Fleck mentioned, going long is definitely beneficial to the shorter distance races. The key thing to remember, is quality over quantity.

My only suggestion to you would to not rule out a future challenge based upon current feelings. You may find that with continual training that your approach to the sport may change and that you might want to tackle a full IM.

I have three kids, one wife (currently), a busy job, my wife works and our home life is a wonderful mix of busy-ness and chaos. That being said I'm tackling IMLP this year.

My wife and I were discussing this. I've come to the conclusion that whether or not I complete a full IM, the event does not define WHO I AM rather it defines WHAT I CAN ACCOMPLISH. I tend to think that there is a big difference between the two.

B.

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Although I like participating in Ironman (the key word is participate), I love RACING at half Ironman and Olympic. These are real races for me. Ironman is one long day of survival. The shorter events are way more fun.
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Well said.

As I stated before racing and finishing is two different things.

If the organizers of Ironman distance events pull the cut-off times back to 13-14 hrs I wonder how many people will be able to finish or will be interested to do an Ironman????

But they never will because...(fill in the blank)

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I see obsessed people.

All I was looking for were a few people who think going short is enough for them. How anyone can distort this into something to be offended by is beyond me.

FWIW, that's how I read your post. You found what makes you happy and what you are content with, and it is different than what makes some others happy and content. ... and you were wondering if anyone else felt the same way.

The only thing that you said that might relate to anything I was commenting on is this ...

That said, with three kids and possibly a fourth in the next year or two, I cannot justify to myself or my family the time and effort necessary to prepare for an IM.

... and my comments regarding (specifically) that were along the lines of "many people with families participate in IM races with similar hours as those that train for shorter races" (and referred to a few examples posted at this site). I did not find anything you said to be offensive, demeaning, or instigating ... just perhaps unaware of how "little" some people train for long course races and do pretty well at it.

The other comment I made regarding (specifically) that commentary, was that I was curious/speculating that the time invested by those [1] seeking to do really well (competitive) at short course races is likely very comparable to the time invested by [2] those that train to do well at long course races. The latter point was one I was wanting imput from others to see if it held water or not. Specifically, I was curious as to what take more time/effort, [1] building 'short course speed', or [2] building 'long course endurance'?

In short, my comments were meant to be positive (to what you specifically said), and to be summed up as "according to some here, training for long course races does not always need to require a great deal more time than training to do well at short course races. So, if it is the time committment that is putting you off, ask around, b/c some others seemingly do well with training hours that many would not find to be "excessive" or "interferring" with family life." (If you don't want to do long course racing due to lack of interest or other reasons, then my comments wouldn't come close to applying to your situation)

I had in mind guys like Dave Cambell, Ray Britt, etc ... and compared them to guys like Cerveloguy, who only does sprints, but seems to train (especially biking with roadies) quite a bit.

I cannot justify to myself or my family the time and effort necessary to prepare for an IM

IMO, it all comes down to what you mean by necessary ... and (possibly) for what goals/results (relative).

Take Care Hookem. Greg Swindell -- Texas (83-86) flat-out rocks. =)

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

it appears you have a terribly guilty conscious - now get off the trainer and go read to your kids ;-)

[reply]it appears you have a terribly guilty conscious - now get off the trainer and go read to your kids ;-)[/reply]

Yeah, but he has good taste in pitchers! I just threw my rugrats in the bed and can't believe this thing is still rolling. I'm never starting a thread again. This is embarrassing. Kinda like scoring 70 points in 30 minutes of a conference championship football game...did I type that? Sorry OT.

Hookem

hey hookem,

i found this thread a delightful and humorous read. keep up the good work. this sport and site is filled with many insecure personality types who take everything just a bit too seriously. now off to have a guiness and a bag of peanuts...and keep racing short course. anyone can do an IM anyway. no big thrill.

I'll admit to having very little desire to do an IM, but if I do, it will be more for a feeling of obligation more than anything else. It's just not normal for anybody my age (54) to actually enjoy doing something like this. I do enjoy endurance events on the bike and could see myself something like a double century or one of those mountainous centuries, but long distance running has very little appeal to me.

I really enjoy the short course stuff because it feels like you're genuinely racing. In an IM I'd be surviving.

Also I can race a sprint or oly on almost any weekend during the season. To do an IM at my age I'd have to regard it as my one race of the season. Imagine training all year for one race and then getting the flu or something just before the race. If I do one it'll be just that - I've then done one IM and am unlikely to do any more.

I could do an IM on the same hours per week of training that I do now but the nature of the training would have to change. This would mean giving up group rides, etc and getting on a more structured program which I'd enjoy less. Plus I have other hobbies, such as scuba diving, that I'd probably have to give up during the IM training.

I suppose it's a kind of an AG accomplishment to finish an IM, but not in the sense that it will make you famous, get you a promotion, pay off the mortgage or put the kids through college.

Some people on ST seem to be very one dimensional and define themselves and their lives thru IM even though in reality, it's only just a hobby that they're not getting paid to do.

it appears you have a terribly guilty conscious - now get off the trainer and go read to your kids ;-)

Likely ... but a quick perusing over my training log says it isn't b/c I am training too much. =)

I just wouldn't want to see someone not do an IM race if they wanted to b/c they are under the impression that it takes an avr of 15h/week ... nor do I want to see anyone cast as a bad parent b/c they do long course races (not that Hookem was doing that). As with most threads, the topic comes up from time to time, so a response here is not solely based on what is written in this one thread.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

I've enjoyed this thread too, and what it has grown into.

Like many I wonder about why I *really* have to do this IM thing, indeed there is a bit of insecurity. All of the criticisms that could be imagined about an age group triathlete are also manifest in me as doubt - and self-doubt is one of the things that endurance sport helps me to manage quite well.

Parenting, for instance - I feel that taking on big tasks, and seeing them through to completion, *is* good parenting - at least for my school-age kids. I want to set them an example, not just by amateur athletics, but but all the other - arguably self-involved - things I do. I compose and perform a great deal, mostly not for money. I want them to be independent, and somewhat daring and not to feel my eyes are always upon them.

And the thrill - way down in the mid-pack - of passing someone you know can run a little faster than you, so it comes down to determination, and pain management. Sure, it might seem almost a parody of what is going on at the front of the race, but it's pretty real.

When I was a child, growing up in Scotland, athletics was encouraged only in those who already showed talent and only when they were young. Coming to North America allowed me a paradigm shift - old people (i.e. over 21) could have lives too! But I can remember the pursed lips of disapproval from those who woul have us think that responsibility was (and ought to be) joyless, somehow its own straight-faced reward. One sees this still at any small triathlon, where all the non-triathletes and many of the first-timers snicker at obviously grown-up people sleek in spandex. But unless you spend all your life under a bridge somewhere (but don't ask difficult questions)you will invariably get up someone's nose.
Speaking of which, I'll stop now.

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I've thought about the original post and had similar thoughts through my tri 'career'.

When I became a runner, and started to specialize in 1 mile, and 5k events, that was the end of the road. I spent all my time training for those events and they were the end all and be all of running. I never felt like I had to do a marathon, because that was totally a different sport. But some people around me, runners mind you, were always wondering why I didn't "take it to the next level" and do a marathon. Even Runner's World is very 26.2-centric. I blew them off because that wasn't my pripority. I wanted to go short and fast.

But I feel differently in Tri for some reason. I started with Sprint, and progressed to Oly very naturally. And though I have hovered there, I still feel a natural progression towards the longer lengths. Maybe it's because I grew up watching the HIM on NBC, but Ironman to me feels like the end all of triathlon. I know that most people won't do it for <insert personal reason>. But I personally feel more of a draw towards the length in Tri than I do in running.

It might take me another few years to work up to Ironman. I'm just ekeing out enough hours to feel good about my Half iron in '06. I still haven't done a marathon after running competitively for 15 years. And my first one, will probably be after a nice warmup swim and a 112 mi bike.

The next book in Velo Press' "Training Guide for Triathletes" series is titled "The Perfect Distance", and deals with the half iron. To date, I have done twelve 1/2s and 2 irons, with the first iron coming after the 9th half. It is tempting to continue doing the irons, but for this coming year I am sticking with 1/2s for my focus. Right now, this feels like a great decision.....although it is tempting to keep working on the irons, with a 12:57 in my first ('04) followed by an 11:54 in my second ('05). But I'll seek my improvements at the 1/2s for '06....and maybe well beyond.

Kate allen -Sui

Loretta Harrop-Aus

Mens

Hamish carter- NZL

Bevan Docherty- NZL

some danish guy

Hawaii- some hairy guy!

Pinnacle shminnacle. Is Ironman the same sport as Sprint and Oly dist?

Nice. what about a Deca-Deca iron man. now THAT would be the pinnacle ( oh wait.. there i sno marketing for that event so it cant be the pinnacle)

<Add to that the fact that Ironman is a glorified duathlon >

that is awesome.. can i use that?

Erin Baker?? never heard of him.

The Kiwi's have TWO Ironman!!! oh man.. now they wuill both want to come over here (OZ)

c'mon where is everyone one... hello?

im just postin to myself here

I love how all those who don't like doing the Iron distance have to diss it. "It's no big thrill", "anybody can do it", "Pinnacle shminackle".

I like other distances. They are fun. I have won several of them and place a lot better in them than Iron distances. I have gone under 10hrs in an ironman and under 2hrs in an olympic. The Ironman was much tougher, harder to prepare for, and during the race required much more discipline and focus over a longer period of time and was more rewarding. I'm sorry if it upsets some of you but short course is not the pinnacle of the sport and never will be. The Hawaii Ironman is. Nothing else is even close, not even the Olympics. Just ask Simon Lessing, Chris Mccormack, or Michellie Jones, argueably the three best short course athletes of all time which is more prestigeous. Is Mark Allen known for all his numerous short course titles or his 6 Hawaii wins? Better yet ask an average Joe on the street what a triathlon is and they will say "that crazy race in Hawaii". In fact on this thread alone several of you short course advocates have complained that you constantly have to defend your choice not to do an Ironman. You shouldn't have to defend anything. Ironman is not for everyone and short course racing is awesome but it simply isn't the top rung of our sport.

I dont mean to diss anything. I agree, all distances are hard. im sure IM is a hell of a day out- necver done it. but if i move up a distance its because im bored with Oly distance aand need a bigger challenge. i am starting to understand that i dont need to do 35 hrs a week to complete it, but racing it is a different picture.

I raced tris for 10 years before I did an IM race. I've done 4 now but have been working on the every other year plan for the most part to ensure that I don't lose all of my speed for the shorter races and don't lose out on too much family time. This past summer I did a few sprints and a couple of 1/2 IMs and trained about 10-11 hours a week less than I did in 2004 when I raced an IM. This year I plan to race IMLP but then go into cruise mode the rest of the summer to have some camping weekends with my family.

I don't think so. You can be very competitive on 8-10 hrs per week. I finished 27th overall in 2004 IMWisconsin and 52nd overall at 2005 IMLP on this training. Just crank the intensity, throw in a few long rides/bricks and get your body fat down to 5-7% and you can do quite well, maybe less than your ultimate potential but still very respectable and most importantly still have a life.

G'day Allan,

Does Cruise mode apply when you qualify for the Big One again??????

Peace

C'ya

Peter

I've mentioned before that I've got no desire to do an IM distance, much less ever go to Hawaii.

Someone here called me a liar for saying that.

I'm an inherently lazy peoson with no natural athletic ability, and I just don't like biking nearly enough to do the kind of training that would let me finish an IM distance comfortably.

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kiwipat

per ardua ad astra

so why are the strongest athletes out there right now not doing ironman?

I believe they are.