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Re: Age and the Decline [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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longtrousers wrote:
monty wrote:
I'm 63. My current 5K run race pace is slower than my PR marathon pace. Why do I continue to race? Because I still enjoy testing my limits. //

Ha, wait until you are 67, I would have to train very hard for at least 5 weeks to maybe do one mile of my marathon PR pace when I was 38!! That is where the wheels have come off the most, running. Could also just be that it is the one sport I neglect, but also do that with biking, and that comes back much faster, and better. There was a time that I couldn't run a 9 minute mile, it was just too dam slow. Now it is the pace I have to train for, and eventually try and hold for my runs of 3 miles, what the hell happened to us!


I suppose if I ran at least 15 miles a week for a few months, with a few 20+ ones in there, I might still have a 21 or so 5k in me. Just seems like a lot of work and potential injury for little glory. But the new swim run races have sort of motivated me to get back at it regularly, not just a crash course 6 weeks before the races...


I'm 61 now and still have my run. I do not manage 1:30 anymore in a half marathon, but did a 1:33:36 last year. Last year in Kona I ran 3:50, which was the 4th time in the m60. The fastest time was 3:43. I had 2 kg overweight last year (BMI 25,4) compared to other years because of a slight motivation lack due to all uncertanties during the pandemic. So without those kilos I even could have had the fastest time!

So hardly any decline in running although I neglect my running training, giving more focus to my weaker disciplines swimming and biking.

Every year I'm surprised it still goes and I'm looking forward to see how it will go this year. One goal is to loose some weight and get back to 84 or 85 kilos again.

I just wanted to say those are amazing times at that body size and that age. Chapeau. Very inspirational.

In my case, I hardly had much decline till 50 and then had a major sequence of accidents at 50 and then 53 (totally different things). Where I was not as limited in swimming and riding my times and wattages stayed pretty good till around 55 (I am 57 now). I have noticed a slight drop off in swim times compared to age 35 and a bit more on the bike, but run is a joke. Even at 44, I was running 1:26 in a half IM and 1:21 open. Today in a half IM, I am 2:00 to 2:06. Much of this slowdown is mechanical due to lumbar spine. Most the the guys I used to run sub 1:30-1:35 on a half bike leg, are running around 1:40 in their late 50's....I am coming into T2 with all the same guys, but after that, my run is 20 min slower. Cardio and will are there, but control over my left leg due to spinal complications is the issue. Still hoping I can get this back down to sub 1:50 (ran 1:49 at Esprit half on a flat course in 2021....2022 spine complications got worse).

I would say in general I am recovering a bit slower between workouts at 57 than 54. At 54, recovery was basically the same as 30.
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Re: Age and the Decline [linkslefty] [ In reply to ]
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I had a serious accident when I was in peak form at 44, and after a few years of intense PT began working my way back up again. I wasn't quite back up to previous form (my running never came close, but this was due more to never regaining full use of my left leg rather than loss of fitness) when I started rapidly declining in my early 50s. My GP simply chalked it up as "You're just getting older". A few health issues cropped up shortly after (afib, anemia from internal bleeding), and once those were dealt with my performance rapidly improved. Just shy of 62, I'm consistently matching or beating Strava PRs that I set 10 years ago...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: Age and the Decline [linkslefty] [ In reply to ]
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Started triathlon at 35 and was at my fastest at 48-49
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Re: Age and the Decline [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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Mark Lemmon wrote:
Congrats on your impressive run splits! When did you start competing? What were your running times then?


I started running with 19 and had my best run splits in my early twenties: not very impressive because firstly I weighed 84 kg @1.85m and secondly I did not know a lot about training, racing and fueling. My PBs are:
Half IM 1:21
Marathon: 2:59:36 (this is a number I'll never forget)
and
10 km: 37 minutes.

Only since 10 years I get relatively better and better compared to my AG, because I'm declining slower. I even get competitive in local running races, which was not so when I was in my twenties.

One poster wrote here above I'm 90 kg, but that is not exactly right, it is about 86 or 87. As I wrote, too much due to homeworking (miss the bike commute to work).
Last edited by: longtrousers: Jan 8, 23 12:53
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Re: Age and the Decline [linkslefty] [ In reply to ]
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46 was the year I started falling apart. I turn 52 in a couple of months and no longer race. The injuries mounted and took their tool physically and mentally.

I realized Father Time caught me in 2020 when my right shoulder gave out and required surgery. Following that a nasty neuroma that was removed that severely limited my running, then last year my SI joint gave out again so I hung up the racing gear and now try to work out for fun and maintain my sanity and weight.

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: Age and the Decline [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
46 was the year I started falling apart. I turn 52 in a couple of months and no longer race. The injuries mounted and took their tool physically and mentally.

I realized Father Time caught me in 2020 when my right shoulder gave out and required surgery. Following that a nasty neuroma that was removed that severely limited my running, then last year my SI joint gave out again so I hung up the racing gear and now try to work out for fun and maintain my sanity and weight.

Yeah, the injuries and age-related degeneration start piling up after age 40. Sometimes slowly, but sometimes all in one fell swoop and then you're out - first for short periods of time, then longer, and then one day, it's over.

I'm 47 and still chasing PRs but am actively managing fatigue, ankle arthritis, sleep apnea, recurrent back pain, and a host of other age-related things that each could end my triathlon career abruptly if they worsen.

Even with avoiding those things, my genetics are catching up to me - I'm still gaining a pound a year despite training up to 15 hrs per week and averaging around 12 during the inseason. In my 20s, this sort of training would have left me a stick figure I would have lost so much weight, but in my 40s, my body sends alarm starvation signals that are quite crippling the moment I start mounting too big a calorie deficit. (Parents are obese.)
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Re: Age and the Decline [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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rhudson wrote:
I was not going to respond to this because it comes quite often. But there is another side that some may find interesting. Never been super fast but held my own. In my 50’s started podium, also got to Kona but pretty much racing the same time wise. In my 60’s and 70’s podium all the time and got to Kona’s a bunch of times not really slowing down well maybe some. But the age groups started getting smaller and a lot of DNF’s. Past 75 I changed the way I trained not being concerned about speed and more on endurance. Over 80 finished Kona last year and I have a big engine and you are going to need it if you want to continue to race long course at this age. I had problems in 2 places at 2022 Kona with out the endurance my day would have been over. Still got some speed but it comes from endurance training.

Congratulations with your wooden bowl! (I peeked into the ironman results). Not a lot are blessed for such an achievement.
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Re: Age and the Decline [linkslefty] [ In reply to ]
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I'm 53 this year, still making gains. Muscle atrophy accelerates tho, consistency is important.
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Re: Age and the Decline [parfi1959] [ In reply to ]
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This year overall Kona amateur winner was 40-44. I think for all 40-th, there no need for any additional motivation ))
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Re: Age and the Decline [Schonner] [ In reply to ]
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Schonner wrote:
I'm 53 this year, still making gains. Muscle atrophy accelerates tho, consistency is important.

Not to hijack this thread, but it sounds like a lot of people have managed to hold on to their speed and health quite well. What would you say are the keys? What changes did you make to hold off Father Time?

One, I think, is mentioned above—consistency. The impact of aging is that you get out of shape faster and take longer to regain fitness. Better to not have long layoffs, if at all possible.

Others? Perhaps adding in strength and flexibility work? Making sure to get enough rest to allow for recovery? Genetics and luck?

I’m 49 and still holding on, well under 1:30 for a stand-alone half marathon and sub-5 at the 70.3 distance. But I know it’s coming, so I’d love to hear what has worked for others.
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Re: Age and the Decline [linkslefty] [ In reply to ]
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At 40+ I was 215 lbs, started doing Tri's at 43.
Set some lifetime bests after 60 and a bike lifetime best at 71 (40K) and no it wasn't a new bike.
We all measure ourselves against the AG and the overall.
And it's still fun.
Last edited by: michael Hatch: Jan 9, 23 11:25
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Re: Age and the Decline [Changpao] [ In reply to ]
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A few things:

Empty nesters. Kids left for college. Allowed personal investment for the first time
Invested in a real coach
Wife that supports
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Re: Age and the Decline [Schonner] [ In reply to ]
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Lots of good stuff in the thread here, and has been hinted at, the biggest roadblock to getting faster after 45 is what you did the couple decades before that. Yes late adapters to the sport can continue to get faster into their 60's even, but that equation is all about the denominator. If you maxed out your potential in your 30's when your physical body is at its peak, you will of course be on a slide going down from 40 on.

So as fun as it is to hear someone is still getting better in their late 40's/50's/even 60's, its just not possible for a lot of us. It is just about hanging on and slowing the slide, and calling on those old muscle memories to get through old guy races. That's why I find guys like Ed Whitlock, or master swimmer Jim McConica so interesting to follow. Both were world classs in their youth, went on to open world class times in their 20's/30's, and then just continued to race at the highest levels in their respective sports into their 70's/80's. There is a very nice graph that shows the real % of decline one could expect starting from the very tippy top, and the ultimate in aged human performance...
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Re: Age and the Decline [Changpao] [ In reply to ]
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i think the single biggest factor in limiting losses with ageing is keeping weight relatively close to where it was when at peak. It doesn't guarantee anything, but gaining 20lbs makes running or cycling fast with an ageing body a whole lot harder.





Changpao wrote:
Schonner wrote:
I'm 53 this year, still making gains. Muscle atrophy accelerates tho, consistency is important.


Not to hijack this thread, but it sounds like a lot of people have managed to hold on to their speed and health quite well. What would you say are the keys? What changes did you make to hold off Father Time?

One, I think, is mentioned above—consistency. The impact of aging is that you get out of shape faster and take longer to regain fitness. Better to not have long layoffs, if at all possible.

Others? Perhaps adding in strength and flexibility work? Making sure to get enough rest to allow for recovery? Genetics and luck?

I’m 49 and still holding on, well under 1:30 for a stand-alone half marathon and sub-5 at the 70.3 distance. But I know it’s coming, so I’d love to hear what has worked for others.

And the question remains. where were you.
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Re: Age and the Decline [Changpao] [ In reply to ]
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Changpao wrote:
Not to hijack this thread, but it sounds like a lot of people have managed to hold on to their speed and health quite well. What would you say are the keys? What changes did you make to hold off Father Time?

One, I think, is mentioned above—consistency. The impact of aging is that you get out of shape faster and take longer to regain fitness. Better to not have long layoffs, if at all possible.

Others? Perhaps adding in strength and flexibility work? Making sure to get enough rest to allow for recovery? Genetics and luck?

I’m 49 and still holding on, well under 1:30 for a stand-alone half marathon and sub-5 at the 70.3 distance. But I know it’s coming, so I’d love to hear what has worked for others.

It all depends when you start: if you start at 50 you will become faster after 50. Nicely put down here:

monty wrote:
Lots of good stuff in the thread here, and has been hinted at, the biggest roadblock to getting faster after 45 is what you did the couple decades before that. Yes late adapters to the sport can continue to get faster into their 60's even, but that equation is all about the denominator. If you maxed out your potential in your 30's when your physical body is at its peak, you will of course be on a slide going down from 40 on.

So as fun as it is to hear someone is still getting better in their late 40's/50's/even 60's, its just not possible for a lot of us. It is just about hanging on and slowing the slide, and calling on those old muscle memories to get through old guy races. That's why I find guys like Ed Whitlock, or master swimmer Jim McConica so interesting to follow. Both were world classs in their youth, went on to open world class times in their 20's/30's, and then just continued to race at the highest levels in their respective sports into their 70's/80's. There is a very nice graph that shows the real % of decline one could expect starting from the very tippy top, and the ultimate in aged human performance...

And, in my case, for running, these 4% and next% shoes caused a temporary halt in decline quite considerably.
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Re: Age and the Decline [linkslefty] [ In reply to ]
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Turned 41 at the end of last year, started triathlon at 21, always been fairly committed and always made progression but had my strongest season last year (3rd overall Ironman UK, 1st overall Ironman Florida, 1st 40-44 in 3 IM's). In my experience I think there has been a very small decline in my performance at shorter distances (eg. short TT's and 5-10k races) but I'm still improving significantly at the longer races which I put down to increased training volume. I do find that high intensity running sessions take longer to recover from so I've adopted a much more controlled approach, using heart rate to control my efforts so I can train the next day. I've also found that 'supershoes' have mostly offset my declining ability in shorter runs so I can still get close to my run times from my 20's.

The only area where I've noticed a huge decline is in very short run efforts eg. when the guys in your track session drop a fast 400 at the end of a session, it used to be something I was good at but now I'm the worst at this.

I'm reading this thread with great interest as I'm super motivated to try and up my game this year but I'm terrified that age is going to start slowing me down!
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Re: Age and the Decline [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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It's strange. I'm almost 48 and I'm definitely faster in overall triathlon races by a lot, but my 5k times are slower and my FTP is lower. Somehow the overall finish times are faster though.

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com
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Re: Age and the Decline [linkslefty] [ In reply to ]
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A lot of it will also depend on your life situation if you are an age grouper, even an elite one. If for example in your 50s your kids have moved out, maybe you have saved a little, you can pull back a bit on work ambition and sleep more, then you will have a lot more chances to continue to improve. If your lifestyle doesn't change, it's realistic to expect some signs of decline.
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Re: Age and the Decline [linkslefty] [ In reply to ]
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Some thoughts
1. 80/20 actually means something as you age. You simply can’t make effort mistakes like you could.
2. Pay attention to details - I can’t remember ever stretching. At 50 I started with 15 minutes of daily yoga. It’s a daily practice.
3. Weight - you have to pay attention to your metabolism. If you add weight it is going to hurt.

Look for motivators
Ken Rideout - in his 50’s is crushing the marathon.
Gordo Byrn - find him on Twitter
Herbert - yes, that Herbert here on this Forum. He is setting a tempo all could learn from.

Read the interview Herbert did with Dede on the home page.

Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

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Re: Age and the Decline [SDJ] [ In reply to ]
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Some more thoughts at 62:

Core strength… it’s getting harder to ride aero for longer periods of time, despite adding very dedicated strength training

Eyesight… by 58, it was no longer safe for me to ride without my prescription glasses… it took an orange cone at WACO to finally hammer this home. By 60, I could no longer safely run, without my glasses, as proven by a seemingly harmless crack in the road, in a local 5k. I have a nice scar from that one.

Balance and coordination… there’s no way I can still look over my shoulder, on a bike, at 20 mph, without endangering myself, or anyone around me. Heck, I can barely do it in my car at a stoplight.

Reaction timing… this can be scary as hell. I’ve made some stupid delayed split decisions on my bike, in the last couple years, that could have been fatal. How far do I dare push this, until my luck runs out?

Sleep… if I don’t get 8-10 hours a night, forget all this.

Bathroom… long course racing really sucks as an older male, in this respect, and I’m not in the club that doesn’t mind peeing themselves, or their bike, in a race. And I won’t even get into the portapotty blow outs.

Athlinks / Strava
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Re: Age and the Decline [Changpao] [ In reply to ]
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Changpao wrote:
Schonner wrote:
I'm 53 this year, still making gains. Muscle atrophy accelerates tho, consistency is important.


Not to hijack this thread, but it sounds like a lot of people have managed to hold on to their speed and health quite well. What would you say are the keys? What changes did you make to hold off Father Time?

One, I think, is mentioned above—consistency. The impact of aging is that you get out of shape faster and take longer to regain fitness. Better to not have long layoffs, if at all possible.

Others? Perhaps adding in strength and flexibility work? Making sure to get enough rest to allow for recovery? Genetics and luck?

I’m 49 and still holding on, well under 1:30 for a stand-alone half marathon and sub-5 at the 70.3 distance. But I know it’s coming, so I’d love to hear what has worked for others.



Consistency is king. If you get injured after 40 and have to take significant time off, it can be incredibly hard to regain fitness.

So that means you have to take care of your body.

80/20 training plans where the majority of the training is easy.

Flexibility work.

Some moderate strength work.

Know when to really back off and recover.

Be lucky. Because sometimes you can do everything right and still wind up injured....

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: Age and the Decline [linkslefty] [ In reply to ]
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65 in 2 weeks. I love running and competing and can almost run my PB marathon time for a 5K (but I never had a great marathon - never what my 10K times predicted). Last year I did 20 races - a few tris, a du, 6 mtn bike races, and the rest 5Ks. But, too much run training and I know I will get injured so I don't run more than 3 times a week when I am healthy. I also do other sports - May to September is windsurfing season and last year I got back into hockey after decades without playing. The key for me as I age is staying active and doing something every day - if not actual training I try to do yard work - in the AZ desert stuff never stops growing so always something to do.

Andrew Inkpen
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Re: Age and the Decline [linkslefty] [ In reply to ]
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I started racing at age 36. I was fastest age 39-44. I didn't see a huge decline 45-50 but it was harder to hit some of my 70.3 times. At 5 my run pace is slower, bike and swim still are hanging in there but my days of sub 4:30 half's is over and has been for a few years now.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Age and the Decline [linkslefty] [ In reply to ]
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I am 51 and have been doing sport since college (but with couple of years long breaks) and I am faster now than ever. Biggest difference I think is I do not race long course anymore. Just do olympic and sprints. The long runs really beat me up. By focusing on shorter, I do a decent amount of volume for that distance and none of the workouts I do are such mega long workouts that I spend days recovering after. Instead I train just about every day. I would love to go back in time and not be doing long course and see how good I could have gotten at olympic distance. My 'faster-than-ever' is with an Asterix because I suspect I would not do as fast an Ironman or 1/2 ironman now as I did in my 30's, but my olympic times are faster and I am finishing higher up in overall standings. Most importantly, my body feels better now at 51 than it did in my 30's. I think it is mostly from going shorter, but I now also get much better sleep, understand and practice much better nutrition, have a less stressful job, live in a less stressful, rural and beautiful place, do strength training, and have some coaching. I am also just more experienced which leads to less wasted time in a race - speed through transitions, less likely to have swim freak out that costs me time in the beginning of a swim. Could afford a better bike too...and the carbon shoes are pretty fast.
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Re: Age and the Decline [linkslefty] [ In reply to ]
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43, youngster!!!

I was 50 last year, and am still getting faster, with certain caveats.

At 45 I did my first IM in 11h53m, at 49 I did a 9h11m Ironman - I was aiming for a sub 9hr IM in 2022, but dislocated my shoulder and tore the AC ligaments 13 days before the race.... I still managed 9h40m and 9th in my AG in Roth, withouth the shoulder injury a podium would have been possible. I am still dreaming of a sub 9hr time, but thinking that 9h11m may be as quick as I go

In May, just after my 50th birthday I ran a 2:53 marathon PB. I also raced in Kona and finished in 10h20m 44th in my AG - not exceptional, but hardly shabby (shoulder still impacting my swim)

In 2021 and 2022 I started to focus more on Ultra Distances. I came 7th in my first multi day ultra cycling event, I came 3rd in my first Century run. I may be losing a little bit of pace, but finding that I am really competetive the longer I go

I was thinking that my shorter distance pace was going, however, this autumn, with a bit of focus, I have been running 18min 5km (3.2 miles). On Zwift I recently achieved my highest ranking ever (380 in the world).

Collective wisdom suggests that HR should start to decline from the age of 40, however, I have not seen any decline at all over the past 8 years (when I started using a Garmin Watch). My MHR is still 192bpm. More research shows athletes can maintain their HR far longer as long as they continue to exercise with some proper intensity sessions

So don't start to look for excuses, train in the right way and getting faster for a few years yet is totally possible
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