I haven't found a proyein drink yet that doesn't have sort of aftertaste.

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I was making up my own drink last summer using dextrose and a product called Protein Cooler to get the 4:1 ratio. It was much less costly than buying a pre-mixed product and the protein cooler didn't have the normal aftertaste. I also would add some salt to the mix for sodium replacement. It worked very well for my long training rides which were usually in the 5 - 7 hour range.

That was a sales pitch from Accelerade saying that athletes performed better with their drink that contained a 4 to 1 mix of carbs to protein. They failed to mention that Accelerade contains more calories per oz than Gatorade and that might be the reason for the increase in performance.

I'll find the links from Accelerade and Gatorade and post them.

Personally, I like both of them.

jaretj

No....I've been reading about it in scientific studies which appeared as an article in British cycling magazine "Cycling Plus" in Joe Beer's column.....and that's not the only place where I've read about it.....obviously the drinks manufacturers have made drinks with this ratio to embrace current thinking.....fair enough if the demand's there....

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Stephen Perera
Gibraltar, Europe
graphics@gibraltar.gi

Stephen,

You may find this thread helpful as it explains the independent study conducted at JMU (ie Gatorade vs protein containing sports drinks) and the dynamics of the results:

http://personalbestnutrition.com/...splay;num=1096304818

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Brian Shea
http://www.PersonalBestNutrition.com
Open-Water/Masters Swimming at the Jersey Shore:
Monmouth County NJ Ocean Swim/Masters Workouts

Ok, between the two studies, were the calories taken the same?

I'm not against protein in drinks, in fact I used Accelerade on the bike at IMFL and did very well. I like the product but I'm not convinced that the protein made the difference.

Please post the studies that you found so we can discuss the information.

jaretj

Jaret,

The study is posted at the link above.

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Brian Shea
http://www.PersonalBestNutrition.com
Open-Water/Masters Swimming at the Jersey Shore:
Monmouth County NJ Ocean Swim/Masters Workouts

This is what I found from Gatorade, I also think that the ideas are skewed a bit towards Gatorade.

http://www.gssiweb.com/...ter_jeffz.cfm?pid=38

Thanks for the link Brian I didn't see it untill after I wrote the last post.

Referencing your source

http://my.webmd.com/...728_00000_1000_ln_02

I still don't see the comparison between calories there and they are relying on how the althetes feel and not any scientific proof. It looks like a repeat test with the same results while no new data was given.

I still believe in the benifits in protein for reducing muscle damage but not for extending endurance.

jaretj

An alternate viewpoint can be seen here http://www.gssiweb.com/...ter_jeffz.cfm?pid=38

(edit): Additionally, the study also used a time to exhaustion protocol, which has a bigger coefficient of variation than e.g., a straight TT or incremental test. Normally, when racing we race over a specific distance (e.g., 40km) rather than trying to ride for as long as possible (to volitional fatigue as the study did).

There's also confounding research showing no benefit from the same group.

also the subjects were only moderately trained which may be an issue (as differing fitness groups can lead to different results. for e.g., low/moderately trained cyclists may find that endurance is increased via weight training (or another exercise modality) whereas in trained/well trained/elite athletes it's detrimental)

Ric

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http://www.cyclecoach.com

Results seem to be mixed, as these studies show.

http://intl-jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/88/5/1631

http://scholar.google.com/url?q=http://www.css.edu/users/tboone2/asep/Niles1Col.PDF

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15105028&dopt=Citation

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

additionally the study by Jentjens et al (2001) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...p;list_uids=11457801 showed that when CHO intake was maximised, the addition of protein didn't accrue any further benefits (this is a post exercise)

ric

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http://www.cyclecoach.com

I always thought the 4:1 drinks were for post workout recovery. The same ratio applies during a workout? Guess I need to go back and review. All this stuff to remember- it starts to run together!

there's little credible evidence to support the 4:1 either during or after. see some of the links just posted.

Personally, post exercise i generally prefer real food! (sometimes after training, and after most races i prefer a recovery drink, in which i'd use a completely different ratio)



ric

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http://www.cyclecoach.com

Check out www.hammernutrition.com. They have 2 main sports drinks. One is their HEED which doesn't have protein. It is designed for 2 hours or less. The other one is their PERPETUEM. It is designed with protein at a 3 to 1 ratio. There are several benefits to this in the way that you can consume it. You can mix it in a water bottle with as many servings as you need depending on the length of your ride or you can make a paste for a gel flask in a cocentrated form and then keep straight water in your bottles. This also has a excellent electrolyte supplement in it. Check the other drinks around and see where there carbs come from. Most are straight from sugar and not from long chain complex carbs. Sugars give you a quick buzz but they loose the gitty up and go as fast as they come. The web site has more info on this that you can read for hours.

It's all marketing, not science. Check out some of the testimonials from athletes sometime and note who their sponsors are, particularly on Active.com (I'd also guess at least one of the above endorser/posters works for Hammer Nutrition)

[i]The Saunders study showed an 83% drop in muscle damage by the addition of protein.[/i]

Yeah, right....so I can do 4x more exercize?

I don't work for Hammer Nutritions but I believe in their product. The one big thing about any nutrition that you use is that it must be in a volume that your body can digest while you are exercising with out upsetting your system. How many of you that use a drink like gatoraid dilute it before adding it to your water bottle. The reason is because the sugar solution will upset your stomach and/or make you feel like you have a cotton ball in yuor mouth.

are you m. guzik?

Dr. John Ivy, chairperson of the Department of Kinesiology and Health Education
in the College of Education at The University of Texas at Austin has an interesting
study posted on the UT website supporting the 4:1 ratio. Also, Dr. Ivy's research
indicates that When you eat is as important or more important than What you eat.

Here is an excerpt, but I recommend everyone read the whole article:

In one study with cyclists, Ivy discovered that drinking a fluid containing carbohydrate
and protein in a 4:1 ratio improved endurance 57 percent compared with water and
24 percent compared with a carbohydrate drink.

...

In the 30 minutes following a workout, a muscle’s potential to rebuild peaks, and it is
extremely sensitive to insulin. To take full advantage of the muscle rebuilding benefits
that can occur in this golden window of opportunity, the right combination of nutrients,
such as carbohydrate and high quality protein, should be consumed within 15 to 45
minutes after exercise.

Don't take this personally, but when someone anonymous registers and immediately posts (3 out of 4 posts) in support od a commercial product, it looks really suspiscious.

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Accelerade produces an atomic gut bomb in me. OTOH, Perpetuem-paste does so well for me, that I could take the stuff as a snack. SO, I guess it's not that protein causes my stomach issues, but something about Accelerade does. I tried Perpetuem when I was searching for an all-day fueling source that was easy to carry, had a fairly high electrolyte load, was palatable (and Perpetuem surely ISN'T palatable as a drink to me) and didn't make my gut explode. It seems to provide something that doesn't leave me hungry on those long days, I assume it's the protein. I don't really know if taking in protein is better for recovery than non-protein strategies, but there is enough research suggesting this to be true, that I at least follow the "window of maximal beneficial effects" and make a real effort to get a load of protein in after a hard workout. The higher the effort I was going to expend in a race, the simpler the fuel I'd use. And, I wouldn't try and fuel at all during any sprint triathlons....too much chance for gut issues.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I've raced IM distance tris with carb/protein(Accelerade) and just carbs. Didn't notice any difference in performance. So I went back to just carbs. Also for recover I like to drink chocolate milk. Has the 4:1 ration and tastes great and it's all natural. None of those manmade recovery drinks with who knows what kind of chemicals.

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18x Ironman, 3x Hawaii
US Army (Ret.), Vietnam Vet ('71-'72)

Hello,

I won't get ito the debate of whether it works or not, but MHO is that it doesn't hurt. I use Carbo Pro and many other products of SportQuest Direct http://www.sportquestdirect.com/. I by accident one day, I started to pour their protien powder, Interphase vanilla flavor, into my water bottle that I had already added Cytomax Orange to instead of the Carbo Pro. Instead of pouring it all out I just added the Carbo Pro and SOB if it didn't taste like a creamsicle. I pretty much use this on all my efforts whether running or biking of more than 1.5 hours. It still tastes like a creamsicle even after it warms upand it gives me some protein along with my carbs.

An aside, they are not huge company and I have been witness to a conversation with more than one top triathlete that have sponsorshp agreements with conglomerates. They essentially thanked him for the product and still use it regularly even though they're collecting a check elsewhere.

I am a die hard Clif bar user nothing IMHO even comes close. But if you are a gel user look into Hammergel. They're flavors are great and they make a quart bottle. Best reason, no waste or trash. Fill your flask and recycle the bottle when done. To avoid gels altogther, Carbo Pro in your water bottle. Check the website for mas 411.

Brian

disclaimer: I am not an elite athlete by anyones standards, especially my daughters. I was forunate enough to win a years worth of product from our tri- club. Prior to that I WAS PURCHASING and using the product and when my year ends, you will still find it in my pantry.

I use Shaklee's vanilla flavored energizing soy protein. It's non-GMO, pretty versatile and mixes well with a lot of things. I mix it with different juices, milk, put in oatmeal, and sometimes coffee. Putting it in coffee will really get you moving in the morning! I think one serving in a 16 oz glass of orange juice will get your 4:1 carb to protein ratio.