Cervelo is going to be selling alot of S-series bikes based on what I'm seeing here.

I'm willing to be proved wrong, but they will be heavier. Weight weenies don't like that. Many roadies (Tarmac buyers) don't concentrate on aero. Weight is very easy to measure...

There is also a good chance that the UCI restrictions may be revised soon, giving a reason to keep distinct aero / endurance / lightweights in a brand's line up.

I'm sure SBC will have lots of data to back up any claims, but (and I'm a big S fan) I don't think his one is going to sell.

I don't think Cervelo will benefit having seen what Trek have turned out.

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Developing aero, fit and other fun stuff at Red is Faster

totally agree. The complicated brakes, etc. of the new Madone and Venge are probably going to lead more people towards the S-series and probably Felt AR

Your logic rests on whether they are significantly heavier... We'll see.
Good points on the UCI thing, partic as it applies to the Tarmac, which was the lightest frame I ever owned. A little too light, it turned out, at least in the seatstay where it collapsed pulling away from a stoplight one day.
You would think UCI'd be willing to get off a half a kilo at this point.... they have been trying to behave a little more logically and that's way overdue. But frame weights are reaching the point where, as with aerodynamics and frames, there's not a lot of fat left to get out, and much of the remaining weight (as with drag) is in the components.
Liberal use of high mod fibers can only do so much. It's one thing to trim 20 percent of the weight of a 1,400 gram carbon structure while leaving in enough wall thickness to have any safety factor at all from impact. Quite another to get even 10 percent out of a 700-gram structure.
Boron maybe.

Out of all the competitors the S5 is still probably the easiest to wrench on. Those impressed by bling and tunnel numbers may not be swayed by it, but there is something to be said for bikes using readily available and reliable parts. More integration = more pain in the ass.

I'll admit that I'm partial to Specialized so I'll admit to any bias that may be coloring my thoughts here right off the bat, but...

The placement of the brakes doesn't seem all that horrible. Compared to the brakes of the BMC TMR01 or the Felt AR, I feel like the rears on the Venge don't look too horrible to adjust. Plus the pat. app. pubs. indicate there's a quick release function. The fronts on the Venge look to be a little more difficult to adjust, but I'll await passing judgment until the bike is released. I'm sure Big S has spent plenty of time optimizing the aero re: brake placement and the shapes of the brakes, but I'd be surprised if it added anything more than a handful of watts saved. I do think the stem and fork/headtube area looks like it'll be somewhat troublesome for adjusting, but who knows. Isn't Felt's Bayonet fork a bitch to work on? Or am I just making that up? That said, I do like the S5 because it looks like it's probably the easiest bike to work on, and well let's face it, they've been leading the charge on aero road for some time.

And let's face it, between all manufacturer's top of the line aero rigs, it'll still probably come down to what best fits you since it'd make no sense to get the "fastest" bike only to have to sit up like a parachute. Not to mention, I'd be happy with any one of the bikes I talked about here, and even the Madone 9. Damn the integration... just have your local mechanic wrench on it. That's their job.

Yes, I can't imagine that ease of working on brakes is ever going to be very high on my list of things that determine what bike I ride. I had a P4 for awhile, and it was certainly one of the worst for that. So, OK, it ate an hour. But then I was done with it.
There are much harder technical challenges out there. Like the cable junction setup in that bike. Or running brake cables in certain aero bars etc.
It's not like these are big deals, like doing something to my car.
The biggest thing by far is that the brakes have to stop the bike well. If I have to tinker, no big deal.

The performance numbers on this bike will be huge compared to the old Venge. There's a couple little details that also can't be seen from these spy shots.
You guys won't have to wait all the way until the tour to see all the details, that's all I can say right now. :beerchug:

Cool. I am ready to be blown away.

Thanks, interesting pics. Looks like they're not hydraulic as previously speculated? Rear brake looks like a MTB "V" brake with the cable routed from the down tube, a barrel adjuster is visible on the cable coming up from the bottom bracket area.

Hard to make sense of how the front brake is cabled, looks like through the stem, down the steerer tube, and than back to the brake.

I must have been blind to have been thinking it was bb mounted rear brake, non-bb, now I am more interested

Well, not hydraulic. This makes more sense as hydro probably would have been a barrier to entry to many. Cable actuated makes much more sense given that all of the FSA sponsored teams (EQS, T-S, and Astana) are supposedly about to be on FSA's new electronic group when it comes out.

Speaking as a Propel owner I will say that these V-style brakes are more finicky to keep operating perfectly and are susceptible to problems as the noodles/bends get dirty. Nothing like a traditional caliper for ease of upkeep - but these do certainly look fast (except for rear cable hanging out).

Rear brake is quite crafty.... I have zero clue how the front brake is cabled.

They are both front and back glorified cable-actuated v-brake type calipers. They are interesting (although these calipers are notoriously hard to keep adjusted/centered), but the real question comes up: what is the big advantage to these designs? Are they superior? Are they worse? Or, do these brakes exist purely as an the artifact of crazy UCsillyI restrictions/rules?

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My speculation-

Front brake is either:
1) similar to the Fuji Norcom Straight where it runs through a port built into the front of the head tube. You can see a small bulge on the frame where the headset dust cap meets the headtube.
2) similar to the new Boardman TT bike where it runs down the steerer center and exits at the bottom.

Either way, it looks like it has a noodle on the drive side (you can clearly see the built in noodle on the non-drive side of the rear brake). You can also see the cable end crimp just above the fork mounted speed sensor, which makes it appear as though the cable enters the brake on the drive side.

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Alex Arman

Strava

It's probably a little bit of everything.

Cable operated will at least not be that much heavier, though they do look a bit chunky. Even if that's mostly CFRP, there's lots of it, and in the frame and fork too.

The rear brake placement is more interesting to me. Last time I saw Anything remotely like that was the Lotus or MCR, but they used standard calipers.

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Developing aero, fit and other fun stuff at Red is Faster

I'm highly disappointed the brakes are NOT hydraulic...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I wonder how the aero cockpit works if you need more stack?

other than adding spacers?

I'm still hoping that there is at least an hydraulic option / model in the line.

But....that is going to present it's own challenges. You'd essentially have to partner with SRAM / Shimano / Campag and have the brakes work with their levers....which would then limit component options / appeal.

It is my hope that if there is more development of hydraulic rime brakes, the idea of discs for pure road use will fade away....but I don't honestly see that happening, at this point.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

How about a cable-to-hydraulic converter...or hydraulic-to-hydraulic (a simple piston) for the incompatible fluid? They should just convince SRAM to switch to a mineral oil based fluid and be done with it IMHO ;-)


That's my hope as well...hydraulic rim brakes along with the excellent aero AND braking performance shown by wheels like the new Hed Jet "black" series will hopefully gain some traction (pun intended) ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Never really seen a cable-actuated hydraulic brake that worked well....although my experience with them has been somewhat limited (primarily the old Rock Shox and other MTB discs). Was kinda the "worst of both worlds"...crappy lever feel with poor modulation. Perhaps they have improved over the years....dunno.

Have no idea whether your other solution is a viable alternative or not, so can't really comment.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I was able to try the Magura C hydraulic rim setup on my alu Soloist for a couple months before it was stolen at the end of February. It worked VERY nice...probably mostly because the cable runs were short and I used Nokon cable housings. With the front cover off the master cylinder box, you could see that the hydraulic cylinders were actuated instantly with the lever pull when set up correctly. Great lever feel and braking power.


Me neither...but mostly because it just popped into my head as a possibility :-)

Think of it this way, if you have incompatible fluids you just need a way to transfer the pressure from the lever fluid to the caliper fluid without them mixing. A simple piston in a bore would do the trick. One could even play with the configuration of the piston (different input size to output size) to account for varying pressure/volume requirements between the lever and caliper. Just "thinking out loud"...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Is mounting an SRM speed sensor off the front fork more aero than putting it on the rear chain stay ? In the first two photos above you can clearly see it mounted out there.

Sometimes I wonder if things like this happen all the time in the real word. Engineers spend countless hours ringing out every watt saving , than along comes the avg user who mounts something on the bike and screws it all up. Guy spends $10k to save a few watts , than in 5 min after he gets it, Poof all gone.