I like the idea of what is fastest for each budget but that would be very complex to do as there are so many middle tier items, including direct from China, which could be put into that mix.

I think that this test would have to be by an impartial company but I am not sure who would pay for it. I for one would pay a few dollars for this test and would even be willing to help with it but we would need a lot more people to join in to get this test done and the bicycle companies would also have to be willing to put their reputation on the line.

I also have an Evade and would love to see data as Giro states they are equal or faster but if they had a round head and then had to size up the specialized to get the helmet to fit on a giro head shape this could have skewed the results.

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http://www.nicksquillari.com.au
@Tinea_Pedis

Chris, perhaps I missed it but when will the Shoes and the Tires be available?
Best Value $/W since I've already got an evade helmet and am more than happy with my S5/zipp 303s :)

As an aside, I'm puzzled why you choose to keep the velcro strap on the Sworks shoes.
It doesn't improve the fit, and only seems to add weight/drag.

Yes.

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Chris Yu
Applied Technology
Specialized Bicycle Components
@chrisyuinc

Yes. We're trying to figure out the best way to present helmet data. As we all know, there's some slight variation with position, amount of hair, etc... We've started doing helmet comparisons with live athletes and just trying to capture as many as possible. Out of the handful of athletes we've tested in the Synth, the drag numbers were more on par with the Prevail. More data points to be collected...

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Chris Yu
Applied Technology
Specialized Bicycle Components
@chrisyuinc

I believe the shoes will be available starting Aug (they're listed on our website, and I think they should have the estimated release posted). Tires are available now, unless you're talking about the SW 22 version, in which case that will be available with the wheels (Sept).

We kept the velcro strap since there are athletes that do find it useful for adjusting forefoot fit. We did improve it significantly though, with a much lower profile (yes, we tested in the WT to determine its impact) and greater ability to adjust locally.

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Chris Yu
Applied Technology
Specialized Bicycle Components
@chrisyuinc

Has the wide version been re-engineered?
It was not really wide, just a different and funky shape.

Good question. I'll need to confirm, but I believe the same toe box adjustments were made to the wide as well. Combined with the new upper material and heel cup, I feel like the fit feels pretty different than before.

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Chris Yu
Applied Technology
Specialized Bicycle Components
@chrisyuinc

Any plans of "expanding" or focusing your wheel line up?

I'd expect Specialized to rival some of the top builders (Zipp, Enve to name a couple) out there since a lot of hours are being spent on the wind tunnel now. I don't really see anything that separates these wheels from a builder like FFWD.

Would be great to see on how the Roval wheels stack up against these guys. And please, no comparisons to Mavic Open Pros. We're in the big leagues here ;)

Again, I'm biased but I've raced all of the brands you've mentioned (excluding FFWD) and believe the current gen Roval wheels are there and in many ways exceed. Certainly from an aero drag standpoint (see below). Additionally, we've gotten genuinely positive feedback from our Pro Tour riders - most notably much higher lateral stiffness and the ability to run the rear brake significantly more closed than before. A cool tidbit from the mechanics also: zero broken wheels from Paris Roubaix this year.

Anyways, I know the ST crowd cares most about aero drag performance. There's no sexy feature to call out. Just a lot of hours optimizing back and forth in CFD and the tunnel to fine tune the shape and depth. The hub shape went through almost as many iterations. An interesting note: it's unbelievably hard to reduce drag at near 0 and 0 deg yaw without compromising on tire width. That's where I think the CLX64 wheels really shine. Aero drag performance is there with a true 24mm tire - and especially if you combine Crr into the equation, we feel like this approach yields the fastest overall package.

Apologies again for the quality of the chart, but this was a tunnel test we performed on the last revision of the CLX64 wheel. Y-axis is CdA and this time each division is 0.001 m^2. All wheelsets tested installed in a Venge frame and with SW24 Turbo tires inflated to 100 psi.

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Chris Yu
Applied Technology
Specialized Bicycle Components
@chrisyuinc

Turning the conversation back to the bike, talk to us about cable routing for the brakes as well as how well the brakes hold their adjustment. I have two bikes with V brakes (Propel, as well as a cx bike), it is pretty typical to need to tweak the spring tension a bit every couple of rides. Brakes inevitably suffer eventually from dirty noodles, housing, etc.

You've stated that you have matched the power and modulation of a DA brake, but with then new all internal routing how have you addressed the accompanying cable friction to keep the brake action crisp and consistent?

Yes, an obscene amount of time and resource was spent on making sure the brake function was up to snuff. The brake cables are guided in housing (and a section of flexible noodle to make the turn at the back of the stem) the entire way, except when passing through the headset compression ring. The radius and location of each turn was iterated on numerous times. As a result, I can run both my front and rear brake with a lighter lever feel than a DA caliper if I choose to - I personally run them a touch tighter by dialing up the spring tension a bit. Have not had to adjust centering in day to day riding.

The system, as with any internal cabling, is obviously not as tolerant to sloppy builds though. Clean, low friction housing and cables. Housing ends cleaned up and cut square, etc...

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Chris Yu
Applied Technology
Specialized Bicycle Components
@chrisyuinc

Thanks Chris for being here to answer on all the new products !

Quite interested in the wheels and I get all the hard work you've done on rim shape, hub shells shape, etc. but I do have a couple of questions that I don't think have been answered yet :

1) Per your own aero graph on Tom A. website (graph) , also "confirmed" (though it's the tubeless version here) by Swiss Side in their testing (graph) the Sworks turbo tire 700x24 does make Zipp wheels (and also Swiss Side wheels) stall much earlier than GP4000S II 700x23. So if you developped your wheels for the characteristics/shape of the Turbo and test against competitors with the Turbo it's quite likely you'll be better. But isn't your wheels even better with the GP 4000S II ? I'm even wondering about Conti Attack 22 (very good at low yaw anges) VS your Turbo in 22 section ?

2) I understand the Venge + CLX 64 are good road products but since we are on a triathlon forum... CLX 64 better than Super9 rear + 404 front, still true with GP4000S II ? What about CLX 64 with Super 9 disc in the rear ? I think we all agree here that for non drafting triathlons a disc is best in the rear 99% of the time so the question often is : what is the best front wheel to match ;-) . I think you have a good front option but it would be good to know if it tests actually faster with Attack 22, Turbo 22 or GP4000S 23.

3) did you look at the 404 Firestrike ? It seems it may close the gap at low yaws...

4) are you working on a very fast rear disc yet ? ;-)))

The $13k 2016 AR FRD is upgraded with a Pioneer dual-leg measuring powermeter and eecycleworks incredible brakeset along with Zipp's new Firestrike 404 wheels and Conti GP4000IIs tires.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I saw that the venge vias frameset was taken off the specialized website. Is there going to be a delay in offering framesets?

Hi great questions.

1) Yes, the Zipp 404FC tests aerodynamically better with the GP4000SII vs. the SW24 Turbo (but note that the CdA difference from changing tires is not great enough to close the gap to the CLX64s if you compare the graph on Tom A's blog and the one I posted above - and this is relevant for the front only. Tire changes on the rear result in near zero CdA change typically). *However*, the fastest tire for the vast majority of riders on the 404 (we believe from our testing) is the SW24 Turbo when you combine in the lower Crr values. It also turns out that the CLX64 rim shape doesn't actually benefit from going to a narrower tire or a tall/elliptical casing shape like the GP4000SII. Going any narrower than the new SW 22 (which again measures 24mm on the CLX64 rim) doesn't decrease CdA measurably and typically results in higher Crr values to boot.

2) I have to check if we did the Super 9 / 404 combo with GP4000SII both front and rear compared to the CLX64 set. You have to remember that test was performed with wheels installed on a frame with a well shielded rear wheel (Venge). We've seen consistently that the aero benefit of a disc, especially at low-to-moderate yaw angles is greatly reduced vs. a well designed mid depth wheel.

3) We didn't have a 404 FS available when we were doing that testing. We will definitely revisit with a new round of testing.

4) Always working on new things...

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Chris Yu
Applied Technology
Specialized Bicycle Components
@chrisyuinc

I haven't heard of any changes in release date for the module. I do know that they were fixing some of the descriptions for the module that didn't make sense (carry over from the full bike description), which might explain the website.

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Chris Yu
Applied Technology
Specialized Bicycle Components
@chrisyuinc

A lot of good information here. On a bit of a tangent to this, can you comment on what compromises typically present themselves when this frame/bike is available with 10R construction (assuming it will be available)? Most of Spec bikes are constructed with 10R layup in the lower cost iterations and it has never been clear what the compromises are except maybe a hundred grams or so in weight. How much less stiff are they - and is it only academic? Is the overall compliance the same?

Also, was the paint/coating looked at on the new Venge from an aero standpoint?

Completely off-topic - are you at liberty to say when you are releasing your 2016 line up for the U.S.?

We started in April. Many details have been published online already as well as our own website updates for 2016 models that started shipping.
What specifically were you looking for? (start a new thread or send me an email so we don't derail this further, ok?)

The website overhaul will be complete ~September 1st but expect a few surprises throughout the fall just when you think we've emptied the magazine.

Now, back to that new Venge...

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

We looked at surface finishes a bit in prior R&D - it still holds that for bike frames, the flow regime is outside of the range where surface textures or features have a measurable effect on aero drag.

As for the construction in typical 10R and below models, it really depends on the bike platform in what is different. But yes, typically it's a combination of weight and stiffness. Honestly, the stiffness changes can be subtle and it really takes pushing the bike to the limit to feel.

Edit to add: I think some of you have noticed, but the Pro level of the Venge ViAS has the same 11R frame and fork as the SW model.

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Chris Yu
Applied Technology
Specialized Bicycle Components
@chrisyuinc

for those who may not know, one thing (of many) that is VERY cool about chris is that he races his bike and has tried all this gear. he is an excellent racer. you can bet this mentality carries over into the design process. he's designing products for World Tour riders as well as us amateurs...but also for himself. that is huge.

i'd be curious how the CLX64 might stack up to the zipp 808s (even a SWAG). also, did I see that there is a tubular model coming out, or was that merely a typo? thought i saw it on the website for a minute on one of the builds. the World Tour teams won't be riding clinchers, will they?

the reason i ask my question is i wonder whether a CLX64 wheel set with 24s (or tires measuring 24 on that rim) might replace an 808 tubular set for criterium racing.

thanks!

I know this thread is on the Venge but is there any info on the 2016 Tarmac out there?

Hey, sorry for the late reply...on the ground in Utrecht now. We did a bit of testing with the 808 FC early on in the design process and the CLX64s more or less matched them at high yaw and were slightly faster at 0 deg. And yes, there will be a tubular model that comes out that is roughly the same shape philosophy but is tweaked to be optimized around the SW24 Tubular tire (slightly different installed width and casing shape).

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Chris Yu
Applied Technology
Specialized Bicycle Components
@chrisyuinc

First of all, thanks a ton for making yourself available to answer all our questions!

Maybe I missed it in this thread or in the marketing materials, but how does the Venge ViAS compare to the previous Venge and the new Tarmac in torsional rigidity?

Thanks!