It's only tangentially related, but Jeff Galloway has always recommended running marathons using walk breaks to achieve your best performance

http://www.jeffgalloway.com/...ing/walk_breaks.html

This is his recommendation for beginners shooting for 6 hours all the way to folks looking to set a BQ time and faster. There could be something to the psychology of it. YMMV.

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M
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'tri or tri not, there is no du' - yoda

"...Mark Allen who made reference to it on that competitor radio podcast when he was talking about chasing down a competitor at the Nice triathlon. His quote was something to the effect of "if I wanted to catch him I couldn't race like a triathlete, I had to race like a runner. "

Runner's don't race like that. Not good ones, anyway.

It has to be towards the end of a tactical race. And it is a great way to begin my interval workout. I enjoy doing ins/outs versus strides.

In the workout (trails) you are only going 30" on / 30" off. Just set your watch for 30" and change pace at the beep. On the track the corners are at marathon and the straights are at 3k.

I have used this tactic in a recent XC races and a 10K two weeks ago with success. XC is tactical since time does not matter. So breaking your competition or trying to surge around people on trails and catch back up to the leaders takes practice of some sort.

In the 10K I was even paced through 5 miles and at the turnaround I noticed 3 guys with much better mile speed 10 seconds back. Rather than panic or pray that they would not catch back up. I made a deal to ins/outs until i was comfortable just hammering until the end. It worked for this race.

Also, you might not be the one dictating the race. So the training helps get used to the known/ unknown changes in pace.

If you are blah, the INs are the most important part. I was only doing 1 mile in the spring and now that my intervals have increased to 5-6 miles the ins/outs have increased to 2-3 miles of the interval total.

To be honest, this is the 1st year I have done this type of workout. But after training with runners I assimilated into their interval style and it has worked.

There is talk of doing 10x1000 at 5k in my near future....but I get a 200 jog to recover. Much nicer than that 30 second rest.


Paulo, Now how do you balance athletes training at HR and also at pace? Intervals and tempo at goal pace and longer and recovery runs at HR?

-Woody

OK, I think I understand the workout you are describing. I suspect that you are underestimating your 3k pace, marathon pace, or both, as it is more or less impossible to sustain that effort level over 10 or even 5k. But broadly speaking the jog the curves/sprint the straitaways is an excellent VO2 max workout.

Especially for 5k and 10k, it can be very helpful tactically to have some ability to surge and back off while staying relatively close to your pace. It definitely makes sense to try to develop that ability. Good for you for making use of it in an actual race situation, that is awesome.

No. Most of the athletes I coach use HR for most workouts and I remind them about the limitations of HR when it comes to measuring intensity. So it's a combination of HR and perceived exertion.

Seems to work well for Brandon Leslie as well as Jonathan Riley.

[b]Morning all, The practice of surging in a race does work, but the main thing to remember is not to run over your threshold during the race, on one of these surge's, thats where the body loses all its energy and forward motion . The short of the meaning "losing it"
Main thing is to practice this before you do the surging technique in a race of any kind. Hey and only use surging if you think it may help you in the a race. Surging is a tactic for runners and it has been a round for a long time. I have used the tactic in my younger years to beat runners who have had more speed than me or had a better kick near the end.
This tactic (surging should be practiced during a tempo run. During a triathlon or a dul try the tactic during the run portion of a short brick..
In the long run what ever you do with this technique of surging . This will no doubt help you be a better runner or triathlete.. www.idorun.ca

[/b][url]

next time i'm 200 yards up the road and you are trying to catch me.....please run your way.

thanks, Henry :-)

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Latest Duct tape QR Superfull fashion model

I actually do a workout just like that before Ironman, but not as fast. I do 10 X 1 mile at 5 -10 secs faster than open marathon pace, with 30 secs rest! I'm doing it this Tuesday for IMFL!

MC

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http://www.mctriguy.blogspot.com

Well ... kind of. It's similar in that it's ten repetitions, but different in the fact that it's 1) possible and 2) addressing a completely different energy system. The workout Paulo gave is also known as "an impossible VO2 max workout" and the one you describe is "a tempo run with rest". Even if the 1k repeats were possible, yours is a much better workout for IM. See you in Florida!

wow, that sounds much harder than a 10K race.

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"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative." Oscar Wilde

Why is it an "impossible vo2 max workout?"

love from,
a curious exercise phys student

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Too many reps above VO2 max pace without enough recovery. If you can do it, get out and race a 5k because your estimate of 5k pace was too easy, and you've got a nice PR coming :-)

I think the only 1k repeats I've ever done are the swimmer version
and certainly not ten of them

Thanks for explaining. I learn more on here than I do in class.... like jonnyo said it is Slowtwitch Forum University!!!

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

The tactic you described is fine; but everything is contextual- sometimes it makes more sense to run even pace hard to catch a competitor, other times, it makes sense to throw in a burst to catch or drop him. It all depends on your planning around race placing, your real-time fitness, where you sit in a race, etc. Again, context.

If you want to try that tactic in a race, by all means- give it a whirl.

Personally, I'd suggest aggressive (e.g. pace changes) tactics are useful for most AGs up through HIM distance, after that, even pacing in Iron distance race makes the most sense.