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"Pace-Shaming"
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A new word [maybe?] that D'Kid made up last night while we were walking around the track

I merely shouted back to my buddy "C'mon, dude!!! You can run faster than that!"
"Dad! Don't pace-shame!!!" she hissed

"Isn't RandMart the old punk rock dude who had the crazy ex? Then this post checks out"

Stop-Think-Consider-Do
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:
A new word [maybe?] that D'Kid made up last night while we were walking around the track

I merely shouted back to my buddy "C'mon, dude!!! You can run faster than that!"
"Dad! Don't pace-shame!!!" she hissed

all I ever do is pace-shame myself. this is why I don't run anymore. I couldn't handle all of the negative pace shaming.

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Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Jun 16, 20 8:18
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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As much as cyclists have egos about passing/being passed on rides, runners do as well. So I can understand that "pace shame" would exist as a thing.

For me 8:30 on my really hilly route is blistering fast for a run. Recently had the only dude I come across on both runs on different nights turn it into a 1/2mi race for the parts of our runs that overlapped.

Dude, OK. Enjoy yourself. I'm a cyclist that can barely run. Go for it.
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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No shame in running slower, even if you're a fast runner.

For me, the hardest part of adapting to a "run slow to a run fast" or 80/20 approach was showing a slower overall time on Strava. I quickly got over myself, but the thought was there.
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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timbasile wrote:
No shame in running slower, even if you're a fast runner.

For me, the hardest part of adapting to a "run slow to a run fast" or 80/20 approach was showing a slower overall time on Strava. I quickly got over myself, but the thought was there.


Yeah, one thing you absolutely have to do if you're making the move to becoming a significantly faster runner through higher mileage training, is that you have to check your ego at the door big time.

When I was running 1:25 half marathons and low 18s 5ks as a pure marathon runner with 80+mpw, I'd sometimes be running 11 minutes per mile on recovery runs by the tail end of the week because I was so beatdown by the volume and speedwork. At one point, when I was doing a recovery 6miler on a track in LA at night, I was getting dusted by 5 year olds who would repeatedly sprint past me. Amazingly as well, I wasn't just dogging it to make myself look bad - that was my natural pace on recovery days since the other days were so hard.

Forget about the swimmer approach where you're constantly shooting to hit better and better times for the interval sets that occur every day. In running, there's some REALLY hard stuff but it only happens a small fraction of the week. The rest is surprisingly slow.
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
RandMart wrote:
A new word [maybe?] that D'Kid made up last night while we were walking around the track

I merely shouted back to my buddy "C'mon, dude!!! You can run faster than that!"
"Dad! Don't pace-shame!!!" she hissed


all I ever do is pace-shame myself. this is why I don't run anymore. I couldn't handle all of the negative pace shaming.

Me too. I've been trying to convince myself to "run" for the last couple days. It hasn't happened yet.
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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We have a local half marathon that goes by my house at about mile 11. I was in the middle of catching and passing a guy who has been running alone for at least half a mile when we passed my house. My wife and kids are in the front yard and scream out "Run faster, you are embarrassing us!". I shrug and reply "I know, I am sorry" and drop the guy. Probably didn't give him a real confidence boost for those last two miles.

------------------------------
The first time man split the atom was when the atom tried to hold Jens Voigt's wheel, but cracked.
Last edited by: BigDig: Jun 16, 20 9:58
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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Even if the word exists (and, it likely does now so you should call the copyright office), I don't think what you were doing is pace shaming. You were encouraging someone to give a little more. As opposed to shaming, which is a version of mocking/ bulling.






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Absolutely, you can't go hard running all the time and many very strong runners are logging much of their mileage at speeds far below what they would race a marathon in.

It's fun following local elite athletes on Strava and seeing how they train. One mid-2:20s marathoner (~5:35/mile) logged ~120 miles/week in a marathon training cycle last fall, typically on average at ~7:45/mile, lots of hills. Another faster (OTQ, sub-2:17 marathoner) guy caps near 100 mpw but runs on average much faster and flatter (average ~6:40/mile). Both are running their easy days 2 minutes per mile or ~40% slower than marathon pace.

Lots of approaches can be successful -- so long as they are not the swim or bike mentality of hammer every day.

To the OP -- was the run on the track supposed to be fast?? Because in that case, pace-shaming is acceptable ;)
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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Funny, when I pace shame my athletes it’s to make them run slower, not faster.

<shrug>

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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [twcronin] [ In reply to ]
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Firstly, way too much data in that post

Secondly, no; we've just been meeting up with our friends from the gym at the HS track to do whatever working out we feel, since our gym still isn't open yet

"Isn't RandMart the old punk rock dude who had the crazy ex? Then this post checks out"

Stop-Think-Consider-Do
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
Funny, when I pace shame my athletes it’s to make them run slower, not faster.

<shrug>

I guess that would be like telling a "skinny" person to "have a sandwich"

"Isn't RandMart the old punk rock dude who had the crazy ex? Then this post checks out"

Stop-Think-Consider-Do
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:
A new word [maybe?] that D'Kid made up last night

what’s a D’Kid?

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I was doing "speed work" last Friday and thinking about this. All my PR's in running happened in the 80's and 90's. Now at nearly 60 my 400 repeats are slower than my average mile pace on an easy 5 mile run was 25 years ago.

We get old, we get injured, and life takes turns that we didn't expect, but at least we are still running, biking, and swimming, which puts us way ahead of the average person (at least in the US).

"...the street finds its own uses for things"
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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My paces are a shame . .


Pete Githens
Reading, PA
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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Guys who haven't even everested were chirping me because my eversting took 17.5 hours. Not to mention it was on a busy road and I had to do 243 laps.
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
timbasile wrote:
No shame in running slower, even if you're a fast runner.

For me, the hardest part of adapting to a "run slow to a run fast" or 80/20 approach was showing a slower overall time on Strava. I quickly got over myself, but the thought was there.


Yeah, one thing you absolutely have to do if you're making the move to becoming a significantly faster runner through higher mileage training, is that you have to check your ego at the door big time.

When I was running 1:25 half marathons and low 18s 5ks as a pure marathon runner with 80+mpw, I'd sometimes be running 11 minutes per mile on recovery runs by the tail end of the week because I was so beatdown by the volume and speedwork. At one point, when I was doing a recovery 6miler on a track in LA at night, I was getting dusted by 5 year olds who would repeatedly sprint past me. Amazingly as well, I wasn't just dogging it to make myself look bad - that was my natural pace on recovery days since the other days were so hard.

Forget about the swimmer approach where you're constantly shooting to hit better and better times for the interval sets that occur every day. In running, there's some REALLY hard stuff but it only happens a small fraction of the week. The rest is surprisingly slow.

Well, surprisingly slow for you and I, at least. In trying to explain this to my wife (who has returned to running after a hiatus), my explanation of my polarized paces and how to train this way seems to come back "vary your stupidly fast paces" and "mortals don't train that way, do they?"
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]
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AutomaticJack wrote:
I was doing "speed work" last Friday and thinking about this. All my PR's in running happened in the 80's and 90's. Now at nearly 60 my 400 repeats are slower than my average mile pace on an easy 5 mile run was 25 years ago.

We get old, we get injured, and life takes turns that we didn't expect, but at least we are still running, biking, and swimming, which puts us way ahead of the average person (at least in the US).


Are you in your 60+? Shouldn't be that much of a dropoff before that even for 25 year differential. I'm 25+ years from my 18 yr old self, and sure, while I never really 'maxxed' my run training in x-country HS, I'm faster now than I was back then, despite being 20 lbs heavier. I don't think I'll hit my age 30 maxxed PRs (done on up to 100mpw running) but it's not a matter of age there, it's a matter of lack of run-specific training.
Last edited by: lightheir: Jun 16, 20 12:30
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
AutomaticJack wrote:
I was doing "speed work" last Friday and thinking about this. All my PR's in running happened in the 80's and 90's. Now at nearly 60 my 400 repeats are slower than my average mile pace on an easy 5 mile run was 25 years ago.

We get old, we get injured, and life takes turns that we didn't expect, but at least we are still running, biking, and swimming, which puts us way ahead of the average person (at least in the US).


Are you in your 60+? Shouldn't be that much of a dropoff before that even for 25 year differential. I'm 25+ years from my 18 yr old self, and sure, while I never really 'maxxed' my run training in x-country HS, I'm faster now than I was back then, despite being 20 lbs heavier. I don't think I'll hit my age 30 maxxed PRs (done on up to 100mpw running) but it's not a matter of age there, it's a matter of lack of run-specific training.

There is.
And I think both you and I are on the cusp age wise of where things do start to drop off...
Fun times ahead!
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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There isn't. Look up the WAVA age-graded results for running, or any endurance sport, for that matter. There isn't a huge dropoff until the 60+ age range. At 40-50, the dropoff is small enough that you can likely outperform your younger self with superior training unless you were training at pro/elite level at age 18-30.
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
There isn't. Look up the WAVA age-graded results for running, or any endurance sport, for that matter. There isn't a huge dropoff until the 60+ age range. At 40-50, the dropoff is small enough that you can likely outperform your younger self with superior training unless you were training at pro/elite level at age 18-30.

But he is almost 60....so reaching that tipping point...
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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Amnesia wrote:
lightheir wrote:
There isn't. Look up the WAVA age-graded results for running, or any endurance sport, for that matter. There isn't a huge dropoff until the 60+ age range. At 40-50, the dropoff is small enough that you can likely outperform your younger self with superior training unless you were training at pro/elite level at age 18-30.


But he is almost 60....so reaching that tipping point...

Doh, yeah. You're allowed to slow down some at age 60!
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
As much as cyclists have egos about passing/being passed on rides, runners do as well. So I can understand that "pace shame" would exist as a thing.

I'm quite comfortable with running slow and steady, and being passed.

It's only when I am doing intervals when I pass a runner, then they will pass me on the recovery interval, that I feel like I am passing them just for ego purposes.
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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plant_based wrote:
RandMart wrote:
A new word [maybe?] that D'Kid made up last night

what’s a D’Kid?

Anyone?

I googled this word and it doesn’t exist.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
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Re: "Pace-Shaming" [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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Amnesia wrote:
lightheir wrote:
AutomaticJack wrote:
I was doing "speed work" last Friday and thinking about this. All my PR's in running happened in the 80's and 90's. Now at nearly 60 my 400 repeats are slower than my average mile pace on an easy 5 mile run was 25 years ago.

We get old, we get injured, and life takes turns that we didn't expect, but at least we are still running, biking, and swimming, which puts us way ahead of the average person (at least in the US).


Are you in your 60+? Shouldn't be that much of a dropoff before that even for 25 year differential. I'm 25+ years from my 18 yr old self, and sure, while I never really 'maxxed' my run training in x-country HS, I'm faster now than I was back then, despite being 20 lbs heavier. I don't think I'll hit my age 30 maxxed PRs (done on up to 100mpw running) but it's not a matter of age there, it's a matter of lack of run-specific training.


There is.
And I think both you and I are on the cusp age wise of where things do start to drop off...
Fun times ahead!

I ran my first marathon not long after turning 19. I was still training at full mileage for an ultra 29 years later, having experienced few significant injuries over the years.

Shortly after that ultra in 2012, at 48 I realised I had run my ultra swansong. At least as far as approaching training and racing at a competitive attitude. Years of mileage inevitably took it's toll on my left knee> It was obvious that if I wanted to be active with running and hiking for years to come, it was time to scale back my training mileage, length of races, ambitions and distances on hard services.

After 50, circumstances and ability may change suddenly. Susceptibility to injuries, flexibility, overuse all have a potential to exacerbate the natural loss of speed attributable to simply being another year older.

Cherish you're speed while you have it. You don't when or how rapidly it may be compromised.

These days, I'm learning to accept that ParkRun will be at around my old 100km PR pace.
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