Ummm, but that picture to me implies actually grabbing onto the chips with your fingers, which we don't really do. Or are you thinking of just raking out like 100 chips out of the bag???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Not the actual grabbing of chips. More that feeling when you know you've got the most possible. In swimming, I get that same feeling - grabbing a handful of water and moving it past me. Not a technical explanation, just a feeling.

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Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.

Ah, I see...then yes, I would agree with that analogy. I've always thought that we have to push the water backward for us to move forward.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Eric, I agree with the dinner plate completely.

Another way to tell how you're doing is to video your stroke from the surface.(because most of us don't have easy access to underwater recording to see what your hand is really doing versus what you think it is doing!)

When I swim, I feel that my hand stays still against the water (the catch) and my body moves over the stationary hand. Of course, my hand is moving...but if you look at where you hand enters the water as I reach, and where it is when I finish the stroke near your knees and initiate recovery....my body has moved forward about the length of the stroke. (I hope this makes sense- anchor the catch..body, not the hand, is what moves.)

Two more basic points that will help you go faster in the water: never let your hands cross the center line of your body and make sure you finish the stroke with a powerful thrust with your triceps...keeping your hand close to your leg. (That thrust helps create more leverage for the rotation to catch the water with the opposite hand and pushes your through a brief glide in the stroke.) And of course your legs need to be high, so keep you head down to help put your legs and hips in the right position.

For reference, I swim 100m at 1:15 on 1:20, and IM open water wetsuit around 50 minutes give or take depending on conditions.

Used the dinner plate analogy during a 600m pull interval this morning, then also during the 400m swim. Guess what. Down to 16 SPL(25m) on the 400m when I really concentrated. A personal best. Sure I pushed harder but that cant explain all of it.

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Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede

Wow, 16 spl on a 25-m pool is really quite good. Glad the dinner plate is providing a good visual:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Make sure to let them know they're not really supposed to use a dinner plate.

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Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.

Ya, I was videotaped about 24 yrs ago and, interestingly, I looked exactly the way I thought I looked except that my turnover rate looked slower than it felt, i.e. the guy taped me at 1:40/100 scy, 1:20/100, and 1:10/100, and it wasn't until 1:10 that I looked like I was trying very hard, whereas in reality I was putting out some effort to go 1:20, with 1:10/100 being my top end aerobic speed. So, I've never been as fast as you but I do the best I can.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I can rotate my something so my elbow is facing straight up and 180 degrees reverse - so the inside of my elbow is facing straight up while my palm is down on a solid surface but no movement without. does anyone else find this movement completely impossible?

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

These recent catch threads are pissing me off because they make me feel like an idiot and as though I wasted my last 6 months. I used to swim a lot as a kid and was fast using techniques like these (bent elbows and my hands like I had a mitt on them. It was natural. I became a bodybuilder/power lifter and stopped swimming until I got into tris about three years ago. Was getting my swimming speed and feel back for longer distances gradually (I'm still pretty fast in short sprints). Then some jagoff who claimed to be a Soviet Olympian at the Y I train at kept hanging out while I would swim and giving me advice about swimming with a straight arm. Since I was more concerned about building endurance stupid me took it absorbed his advice. While I still got faster, I would tire out. A thread I read a couple weeks ago reaffirmed I was doing it right from the git go, technique still needed improvement though. I switch back last week and shaved 5 seconds off my time to 1:22-1:26 per 100 yards right off the bat. Now I avoid this guy like the plague. Thanks you for these threads, because had I not read them I might have developed a technique that would have been almost impossible to get rid of.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

DAYUM! I wish I'd seen this before I went for my swim today. I've been so excited as a norte blew in an expected a lessening of the rough seas and Oh MAI Gods and Godesses it was flat as a panqueque today. I brought a bowl AND a plate (and a cup just incase) and boy did the tourists look at me funny. Finally i left it all on teh dive boat and headed out to sea.

ERIK! WUBOOO!! that was an AMAZING analogy. I tried first doing the tilt hand down thing and anchor and it was so stilted and hard to coordinate until I thought, "okay, lets switch to that dinner plate" but alas the dive boat had left and I was not only without a plate but also a BOWL! :) Anyway, that was an amazing visual. I had NO problem grabbing the water or making the catch when i envisioned my palm and forearm as a dinner plate. Really worked for me. thank you!

and half, if your interest is piqued by teh May 10K swim from Cancun to Isla, I'd be happy to pick you up and offer you a place to stay and take you to the event. lmk. maybe even a froo froo or two... :) they supposedly have a huge buffet at the end of the swim once you make it to Isla...

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

I've read this before and I still don't get where he wants the elbow to be rotated to, is it the wall to the side of me or am I supposed to rotate my elbow to the wall in front of me.

I've always found the swim technique thing confusing and had coaches harping on about counting strokes. for 25 metre pools I normally do anything between 14 and 16 and in 50 metre pools 32 to 35.

When going all out tend to push up to 36 39 and lift the stroke rate, but always get the coaches saying I need to take less strokes.

Point your elbow towards the side of the pool.

okay, thanks, I know it might sound silly by my spl obssesed coaches always show an early bend with your elbow pointing to the front

Kathy - I'm glad the dinner plate visual has worked so well for you. Really this is just a random thought I had one day when swimming backstroke, and I just threw it out there as an observation. I had no idea so many people would like it:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."