Interesting, I've never heard of the term and I've been swimming competitively for many, many years. I do think however that your guess sounds right.

None of the above; no stopping/starting but rather one fluid powerful pull: "anchor your catch" is a way of saying that you should be able to feel like you have a dinner plate on your hand/forearm, even though you are swimming w/o paddles. You want to reach out and grab the water with a flat hand/forearm (i.e., fingers pointing to bottom of pool) and pull your body over your hand/forearm in essence. Just focus on trying to feel really powerful in the water, with each pull feeling like you have that dinner plate on your hand. Others may describe it differently but that's the way it feels to me. In sum, try to be powerful in the water:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Well said ericmulk.

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

Thanks!!! I think of the dinner plate analogy quite often when swimming or pulling:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I sometimes use the term "reaching over a barrel" to describe the bent elbow pull.

35 seconds into this video is a good visual - http://www.youtube.com/...t=PL773BB1ECB91C0197 (personally, I'm not so hot on the whole "keyhole" ellipical movement mentioned later)

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Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

Find desert dude's blog and read his post about The Catch

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Ever tried to swim faster by increasing your stroke rate? Often seems to work to a point, then you no longer speed up, quite possibly start going slower. This is an example of not anchoring the catch, your arm just seems to slip through the water. From my own experience I think it takes time to learn how to hold the water at different speeds, and that you just gotta keep pushing to that slip point, and slowly it will occur at higher stroke rate.

Can we search for it? ;)

I think they're referring to this post. Not sure, didn't read all of it.

http://accelerate3.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/the-catch/

That's it.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

That may be "it" but I think "it" is way too wordy to translate into action in the 0.75 sec or so that we are doing the catch. Think of trying to feel like you have a big dinner plate on your hand/forearm, much simpler:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

So, raise your arm high over your head like you are reaching for something on a tall shelf. Notice how your hip and torso naturally rotates inward? While your arm is raised, bend your arm at the elbow until your forearm is parallel to the ground and your fingers are pointing straight ahead toward the horizon. If you were in water this would be the bottom of the pool. You have now made your catch. A sharp rotation of your torso that is initiated with a forceful downward kick from the same side leg and your recovery arm entering the water (reaching) is leveraged off your catch and creates the impulse. The higher (closer to the surface) your elbow and the more rigid you keep your elbow/forearm/hand system through the stroke, the more anchored the catch is. It will naturally start breaking down when your hand is at about belly button level and be done by your hip. Recover, do it with the other side.

If you can do that you will conservatively beat 75% of triathletes in the swim on less than 8000yds a week.

Typical flaws are not initiating a catch, breaking or droping the elbow, breaking the hand, miss-timing or missing the kick, miss-timing recovery, not reaching far enough forward on the recovery, not rotating enough on the recovery - basically not cocking the gun, not exploding the rotation around the catch.

Terry Laughlin's videos of him swimming demonstrate this well.

Billy I will impress upon you one aspect of the catch my coach put into my head that really made the lights click on. Hopefully this gif still works and I have it saved in an email my coach sent to me years ago so I could practice it at home. If it doesn't show up here PM me your email and I will forward it to you directly.

It took me quite a while to be able to get my forearm into this position, but once the muscle memory was ingrained and I put it into a full stroke scenario it was like fireworks going off in my head! YMMV, hope you can glean something good from this.

[URL=http://www.makeagif.com/32jaYz][/url]


Where this can get a little dicey is when and where in the stroke do you get to this internally rotated position? Some can and do lock out their arm at full extension and can get here very well, I can't so I enter with a tiny bit of elbow bend. BUT I have zero delay of any kind and the instant my forearm is submurged I'm catching and getting ready to transition to pull through. I think in many respects the where and when of this is only something you can figure out through experimentation to see what works best *for you*.

http://www.goswim.tv/...igh-elbow-catch.html
Here is the Full explanation of working on elbow rotation and flex to initiate the catch.... David K

Ahh thanks for posting that David that is great. Billy this is hard, but totally doable and the benefits will pay off. Don't get too caught up in trying to make it too shallow, just MAKE it happen. If that is 18" under the water that is fine, just as long as the elbow is above the wrist, wrist above the fingers and fingers down. Forcing negative shoulder angles(shallow drafting upper arm) is one of the mechanisms of impingement so go with what God gave ya. You can improve on that over time a little, but by and large most of that is how shallow/deep your humerus sits.

Thanks for the dinner plate analogy. That really helped me this morning in the pool! I think (knock on wood) a light bulb went off for me.

Kent

I just had a crazy idea of equating feeling for a good catch is like when you reach into a big bag of tortilla chips and you work your hand to be able to pull out as many as you can - you just know when you've got a good "catch."

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Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.

I've been struggling with this concept over the last few months. When I do what you describe with my left arm/hand, bending my elbow in a natural way, my fingers point more toward my right, and vice versa. I don't think that would be toward the bottom of the pool, unless my rotation has already turned my body quite a way in the other direction by that point.

Is this a shoulder flexibility issue, or is my rotation seriously out of sync, or am I misunderstanding something?

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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

I remember this video helping me with this concept (anchor + humerus rotation). But when I posted it a few years ago and got flamed by that asshole Paolo, which set off a big gang bang from his worshipers. An unpleasant experience. Anyone that's off topic though--good luck OP.

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__________________________

Oh yeah!

I also tell people to think about that motion like they are climbing over a tall fence or getting out of the pool. hands grab the lip and then you elbows go up above your hands so you can push yourself out of the water/over the fence. To a lessor extent it's the same motion. You are pushing the water more than you are pulling it when you have a high elbow.

tj

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Badig| Strava

We also just started to talk about it in this thread too, but from a different direction. Hope it helps.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...;;page=unread#unread

Tim

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

If you were to use one paddle and one fin to reinforce this, would you use them on the same side, or opposite hand/foot? From your description I think same side..

I don't know about one fin, but fins certainly help feel the kick and provide positive feedback. I occasionally do a basic swimming drill with fins and a snorkel, I use a two beat kick to simplify things, and really concentrate on feeling my form, and body in the water. I don't think that paddles help get the feel of the catch. I find the fist drills can be useful, but your really have to concentrate on establishing the catch with your fist and forearm, then when you use your hands you can really feel the dinner plate analogy previously used.

Thanks, glad you liked this!!! I thought of this about 6 months ago, actually when I was swimming backstroke rather than freestyle. I was doing a straight backstroke set and was finally really starting to feel the pull, and that's when the dinner plate analogy came to me. I like it cause it's just so simple and short, only two words to remember. I've never ever been able to get anything out of these paragraphs that talk about this angle and that angle, like we have time to measure this stuff while swimming. I have always been a good visual learner though, just picking stuff up by watching excellent swimmers.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Ummm, but that picture to me implies actually grabbing onto the chips with your fingers, which we don't really do. Or are you thinking of just raking out like 100 chips out of the bag???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Not the actual grabbing of chips. More that feeling when you know you've got the most possible. In swimming, I get that same feeling - grabbing a handful of water and moving it past me. Not a technical explanation, just a feeling.

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Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.

Ah, I see...then yes, I would agree with that analogy. I've always thought that we have to push the water backward for us to move forward.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Eric, I agree with the dinner plate completely.

Another way to tell how you're doing is to video your stroke from the surface.(because most of us don't have easy access to underwater recording to see what your hand is really doing versus what you think it is doing!)

When I swim, I feel that my hand stays still against the water (the catch) and my body moves over the stationary hand. Of course, my hand is moving...but if you look at where you hand enters the water as I reach, and where it is when I finish the stroke near your knees and initiate recovery....my body has moved forward about the length of the stroke. (I hope this makes sense- anchor the catch..body, not the hand, is what moves.)

Two more basic points that will help you go faster in the water: never let your hands cross the center line of your body and make sure you finish the stroke with a powerful thrust with your triceps...keeping your hand close to your leg. (That thrust helps create more leverage for the rotation to catch the water with the opposite hand and pushes your through a brief glide in the stroke.) And of course your legs need to be high, so keep you head down to help put your legs and hips in the right position.

For reference, I swim 100m at 1:15 on 1:20, and IM open water wetsuit around 50 minutes give or take depending on conditions.

Used the dinner plate analogy during a 600m pull interval this morning, then also during the 400m swim. Guess what. Down to 16 SPL(25m) on the 400m when I really concentrated. A personal best. Sure I pushed harder but that cant explain all of it.

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Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede

Wow, 16 spl on a 25-m pool is really quite good. Glad the dinner plate is providing a good visual:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Make sure to let them know they're not really supposed to use a dinner plate.

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Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.

Ya, I was videotaped about 24 yrs ago and, interestingly, I looked exactly the way I thought I looked except that my turnover rate looked slower than it felt, i.e. the guy taped me at 1:40/100 scy, 1:20/100, and 1:10/100, and it wasn't until 1:10 that I looked like I was trying very hard, whereas in reality I was putting out some effort to go 1:20, with 1:10/100 being my top end aerobic speed. So, I've never been as fast as you but I do the best I can.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I can rotate my something so my elbow is facing straight up and 180 degrees reverse - so the inside of my elbow is facing straight up while my palm is down on a solid surface but no movement without. does anyone else find this movement completely impossible?

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

These recent catch threads are pissing me off because they make me feel like an idiot and as though I wasted my last 6 months. I used to swim a lot as a kid and was fast using techniques like these (bent elbows and my hands like I had a mitt on them. It was natural. I became a bodybuilder/power lifter and stopped swimming until I got into tris about three years ago. Was getting my swimming speed and feel back for longer distances gradually (I'm still pretty fast in short sprints). Then some jagoff who claimed to be a Soviet Olympian at the Y I train at kept hanging out while I would swim and giving me advice about swimming with a straight arm. Since I was more concerned about building endurance stupid me took it absorbed his advice. While I still got faster, I would tire out. A thread I read a couple weeks ago reaffirmed I was doing it right from the git go, technique still needed improvement though. I switch back last week and shaved 5 seconds off my time to 1:22-1:26 per 100 yards right off the bat. Now I avoid this guy like the plague. Thanks you for these threads, because had I not read them I might have developed a technique that would have been almost impossible to get rid of.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

DAYUM! I wish I'd seen this before I went for my swim today. I've been so excited as a norte blew in an expected a lessening of the rough seas and Oh MAI Gods and Godesses it was flat as a panqueque today. I brought a bowl AND a plate (and a cup just incase) and boy did the tourists look at me funny. Finally i left it all on teh dive boat and headed out to sea.

ERIK! WUBOOO!! that was an AMAZING analogy. I tried first doing the tilt hand down thing and anchor and it was so stilted and hard to coordinate until I thought, "okay, lets switch to that dinner plate" but alas the dive boat had left and I was not only without a plate but also a BOWL! :) Anyway, that was an amazing visual. I had NO problem grabbing the water or making the catch when i envisioned my palm and forearm as a dinner plate. Really worked for me. thank you!

and half, if your interest is piqued by teh May 10K swim from Cancun to Isla, I'd be happy to pick you up and offer you a place to stay and take you to the event. lmk. maybe even a froo froo or two... :) they supposedly have a huge buffet at the end of the swim once you make it to Isla...

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

I've read this before and I still don't get where he wants the elbow to be rotated to, is it the wall to the side of me or am I supposed to rotate my elbow to the wall in front of me.

I've always found the swim technique thing confusing and had coaches harping on about counting strokes. for 25 metre pools I normally do anything between 14 and 16 and in 50 metre pools 32 to 35.

When going all out tend to push up to 36 39 and lift the stroke rate, but always get the coaches saying I need to take less strokes.

Point your elbow towards the side of the pool.

okay, thanks, I know it might sound silly by my spl obssesed coaches always show an early bend with your elbow pointing to the front

Kathy - I'm glad the dinner plate visual has worked so well for you. Really this is just a random thought I had one day when swimming backstroke, and I just threw it out there as an observation. I had no idea so many people would like it:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."