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Re: Re: [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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dfru wrote:
I am sure that Lionel is being coached by Jan.

After LS retires, he will be the best triathlon coach of all time. He's made a lot of mistakes, coached by a Norwegian, good swim coaches and now Jan. Just think about knowledge that he has by then. Amazing...
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Re: Re: [s13tx] [ In reply to ]
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s13tx wrote:
dfru wrote:
I am sure that Lionel is being coached by Jan.


After LS retires, he will be the best triathlon coach of all time. He's made a lot of mistakes, coached by a Norwegian, good swim coaches and now Jan. Just think about knowledge that he has by then. Amazing...

I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's amazing. He's really intelligent, but organizing all those thoughts while coaching yourself is not the most efficient way for most to make the best decisions sometimes. But I think you could be right - maybe not best of all time but...really effing good lol

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
Mark Mathews said on the podcast Jan confirmed it to him directly, so unless he is making up conversations he never had..

ok you are a smart guy if you were lionel and are looking for a coach , would you go with a guy that has never coached andybody or would you go with the guy that coached jan and and 2 other kona winners and is generally regarded as one of the best coaches in the world.


if he was looking for a mentor and an advisor i can see how he would chose jan , if he was looking for a coach i seriously struggle why he would go with another junior coach that has never really coached ......

thats why iam interested how they actually work together,

at the same time i would not have thought that one of the top 5 soccer clubs in the world sign a coach that was just relegated from the premier league, so everything is possible.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
Mark Mathews said on the podcast Jan confirmed it to him directly, so unless he is making up conversations he never had..

Mark is a source for one thing, that's his wife. The HABs club is a poor podcast and they do more negative than they do good. It would be great if they all stopped opening their mouths. "Jan told me this so it's totally true"...sorry but unless Jan says it on your podcast in a serious manner it isn't real.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
Mark Mathews said on the podcast Jan confirmed it to him directly, so unless he is making up conversations he never had..


Mark is a source for one thing, that's his wife. The HABs club is a poor podcast and they do more negative than they do good. It would be great if they all stopped opening their mouths. "Jan told me this so it's totally true"...sorry but unless Jan says it on your podcast in a serious manner it isn't real.

yeah, i think a grain or two of salt is the bare minimum cost of entry for that podcast. i also think that they can end up in a tricky position: talbot, for instance, sometimes like to troll with misdirection or straight-up goofs in his videos, which can be entertaining i guess, but then it's a lot harder to take him seriously later on when he says, "no really, this time i'm not joking around."

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
Mark Mathews said on the podcast Jan confirmed it to him directly, so unless he is making up conversations he never had..


Mark is a source for one thing, that's his wife. The HABs club is a poor podcast and they do more negative than they do good. It would be great if they all stopped opening their mouths. "Jan told me this so it's totally true"...sorry but unless Jan says it on your podcast in a serious manner it isn't real.


yeah, i think a grain or two of salt is the bare minimum cost of entry for that podcast. i also think that they can end up in a tricky position: talbot, for instance, sometimes like to troll with misdirection or straight-up goofs in his videos, which can be entertaining i guess, but then it's a lot harder to take him seriously later on when he says, "no really, this time i'm not joking around."

This could have been written by a 13-year old girl who's complaining about how she never knows if her sarcastic friend is being serious or not
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [Nillsvdb] [ In reply to ]
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ok, thanks!

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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It's unfortunate.

There is an interesting discussion around to polar opposite ways of doing things coming together and we don't seem to be able to get past childish name calling.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
It's unfortunate.

There is an interesting discussion around to polar opposite ways of doing things coming together and we don't seem to be able to get past childish name calling.

I, for one, truly appreciate your contributions to this thread.

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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To get this thread mildly back on track or at least away from grown men insulting each other on the internet I present this comical head to head graphic that gave me a good chuckle.


Last edited by: Lagoon: May 31, 24 10:39
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [Nillsvdb] [ In reply to ]
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Nillsvdb wrote:
iron_mike wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
Mark Mathews said on the podcast Jan confirmed it to him directly, so unless he is making up conversations he never had..


Mark is a source for one thing, that's his wife. The HABs club is a poor podcast and they do more negative than they do good. It would be great if they all stopped opening their mouths. "Jan told me this so it's totally true"...sorry but unless Jan says it on your podcast in a serious manner it isn't real.


yeah, i think a grain or two of salt is the bare minimum cost of entry for that podcast. i also think that they can end up in a tricky position: talbot, for instance, sometimes like to troll with misdirection or straight-up goofs in his videos, which can be entertaining i guess, but then it's a lot harder to take him seriously later on when he says, "no really, this time i'm not joking around."


This could have been written by a 13-year old girl who's complaining about how she never knows if her sarcastic friend is being serious or not
The unnecessary action by them to break news and foment rumors is why they should not be trusted as a platform. They have the potential, like Jack Kelly to be incredible. But they choose to do the other.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
The unnecessary action by them to break news and foment rumors is why they should not be trusted as a platform. They have the potential, like Jack Kelly to be incredible. But they choose to do the other.

When the intro of the podcast says they are fake news, I personally don't take everything at face value.
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Re: The Official, All Encompassing, Lionel Sanders Thread [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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Hear hear 😂

It’s one of the reasons I like the podcast. Triathlon is boring when taken seriously. It’s a lot more interesting when mocked. But it’s the most interesting when you can’t be sure if they’re pulling your leg or actually announcing some breakthrough thing.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
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Re: Re: [s13tx] [ In reply to ]
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Lionel has also joked in the past that he's coached by Cam Wurf, Sam Long, and even Lou Ferrigno.
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Re: Re: [buzzsaw] [ In reply to ]
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Lionel hasn't joked about being coached by Frodeno at all. He's talked about his team and all the things that they are doing working together. And in the aero test video - Jan is talking about a list of things and Lionel was confirming they tested them all. Just like if they consulted about it, at the minimum.

I think that this is happening, truly. It's not Lionel putting it out there - it's putting together all the other people saying things and such.

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Re: [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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dfru wrote:
And in the aero test video - Jan is talking about a list of things and Lionel was confirming they tested them all.

Which video is that ?
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Re: Re: [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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the second one at Aerow that Jan is in?

ETA Day 5 - about 26:00 in. It's more Lionel going over the changes but Jan sounding happy about the testing higher stack was telling, then Lionel goes over the other things they tried. Obviously not the whole thing. And Talbot is a genius with putting out JUST enough info.

I could be wrong - you would know best! But I don't think I am hahaha

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
Last edited by: dfru: Jun 4, 24 10:47
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Re: Re: [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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dfru wrote:
the second one at Aerow that Jan is in?

ETA Day 5 - about 26:00 in. It's more Lionel going over the changes but Jan sounding happy about the testing higher stack was telling, then Lionel goes over the other things they tried. Obviously not the whole thing. And Talbot is a genius with putting out JUST enough info.

I could be wrong - you would know best! But I don't think I am hahaha


Ok, when I watched that I didn't realize Jan was speaking in the background. I thought there was only the cameo at the engly. The only data I have seen is what you guys saw.

I'll tell you this, he has confirmed and double confirmed and triple confirmed a lot of his findings. He did a road test in September, another in December, A2 tunnel in January and this.

The Met helmet is a really good test becase a) it tests fast. We tested on several WT riders and it did well. b) he didn't have one when we tested. Same for suits, he only had Surpass and another type.

It will be interesting to see what data they include in future videos. As to your comment on "JUST enough", sometimes I don't think they realize just how much they are revealing to the trained eye.
Last edited by: marcag: Jun 4, 24 11:04
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Re: Re: [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
dfru wrote:
the second one at Aerow that Jan is in?

ETA Day 5 - about 26:00 in. It's more Lionel going over the changes but Jan sounding happy about the testing higher stack was telling, then Lionel goes over the other things they tried. Obviously not the whole thing. And Talbot is a genius with putting out JUST enough info.

I could be wrong - you would know best! But I don't think I am hahaha


Ok, when I watched that I didn't realize Jan was speaking in the background. I thought there was only the cameo at the engly. The only data I have seen is what you guys saw.

I'll tell you this, he has confirmed and double confirmed and triple confirmed a lot of his findings. He did a road test in September, another in December, A2 tunnel in January and this.

The Met helmet is a really good test becase a) it tests fast. We tested on several WT riders and it did well. b) he didn't have one when we tested. Same for suits, he only had Surpass and another type.

It will be interesting to see what data they include in future videos. As to your comment on "JUST enough", sometimes I don't think they realize just how much they are revealing to the trained eye.

Just enough is more the Jan stuff than the aero stuff. I know there's a lot of technical stuff in the video - I mean teasing the coaching thing.

It's an incredible series that I've watched a few times. I don't think many people recognized Jan's voice in there - which is funny to me, and also earlier when Bjorn was clearly there but they were talking about working with Bjorn from an aero perspective months ago too. I love the confirmations. Didn't know about A2 in Jan, just the December velodrome. But...he can move forward confidently - I expect something sensational this year is still coming.

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Re: [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
dfru wrote:
the second one at Aerow that Jan is in?

ETA Day 5 - about 26:00 in. It's more Lionel going over the changes but Jan sounding happy about the testing higher stack was telling, then Lionel goes over the other things they tried. Obviously not the whole thing. And Talbot is a genius with putting out JUST enough info.

I could be wrong - you would know best! But I don't think I am hahaha


Ok, when I watched that I didn't realize Jan was speaking in the background. I thought there was only the cameo at the engly. The only data I have seen is what you guys saw.

I'll tell you this, he has confirmed and double confirmed and triple confirmed a lot of his findings. He did a road test in September, another in December, A2 tunnel in January and this.

The Met helmet is a really good test becase a) it tests fast. We tested on several WT riders and it did well. b) he didn't have one when we tested. Same for suits, he only had Surpass and another type.

It will be interesting to see what data they include in future videos. As to your comment on "JUST enough", sometimes I don't think they realize just how much they are revealing to the trained eye.

out of interest how does the set up work with him i think he did some work with jonas after kona that might have been more fitting , you , the aero then in the tunnel i would assume again with jonas so who brings all the numbers together.
and then of course who comes up with the baseline after all the pre testing .230 seems more marketing than reality ..... hard to believe that was his baseline after all the testing he had already done .
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Re: Re: [pk] [ In reply to ]
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pk wrote:
marcag wrote:
dfru wrote:
the second one at Aerow that Jan is in?

ETA Day 5 - about 26:00 in. It's more Lionel going over the changes but Jan sounding happy about the testing higher stack was telling, then Lionel goes over the other things they tried. Obviously not the whole thing. And Talbot is a genius with putting out JUST enough info.

I could be wrong - you would know best! But I don't think I am hahaha


Ok, when I watched that I didn't realize Jan was speaking in the background. I thought there was only the cameo at the engly. The only data I have seen is what you guys saw.

I'll tell you this, he has confirmed and double confirmed and triple confirmed a lot of his findings. He did a road test in September, another in December, A2 tunnel in January and this.

The Met helmet is a really good test becase a) it tests fast. We tested on several WT riders and it did well. b) he didn't have one when we tested. Same for suits, he only had Surpass and another type.

It will be interesting to see what data they include in future videos. As to your comment on "JUST enough", sometimes I don't think they realize just how much they are revealing to the trained eye.


out of interest how does the set up work with him i think he did some work with jonas after kona that might have been more fitting , you , the aero then in the tunnel i would assume again with jonas so who brings all the numbers together.
and then of course who comes up with the baseline after all the pre testing .230 seems more marketing than reality ..... hard to believe that was his baseline after all the testing he had already done .

I think Jonas and his company have close relationships with Canyon and it's normal for the bike sponsor to be involved with this kind of testing. Especially when you start testing UCI vs non UCI, Canyon vs third party cockpits, etc etc.

I tested Lionel on the road pre Kona. Way back then he mentioned he would eventually go to Germany for testing. They were building their tunnel at that time

Then Jonas tested him on the velodrome.

Then I tested back on the road. Biggest difference between velodrome and road is 0 yaw on the velodrome and harder to control yaw on the road. 0 yaw is wonderful, but remember, numbers are always worst at 0 and that is not real world, especially at Kona.

Then he decided to test at A2, a lot of which to confirm what we found previously and test some very specific things. A tunnel is better for some things, not as good for others. But the problem with a tunnel, or testing in general is you can't take "raw numbers" and compare them. There is a need for interpretation. I think that was where I could help at A2.

I did post race analysis after Oceanside which was basically confirming the work we had done previously.

I suspect his injury kind of made it the right time for his testing in Germany. It was probably good for his coach to be there :-).

As for the .230.....well........I guess that's where a little interpretation of results comes in. Where the fixtures that hold the bike subtracted ? Some tunnels do, some don't. I think even Lionel questioned that number saying "a person wouldn't be competitive". This after winning Oceanside.

Absolute numbers and hair shaving apart, I didn't see anything strange in those videos. I think Jonas did a great job and the video really well done. Find a youtube video were they don't find 30watts :-)

Personally I would have asked a few questions to get more context but I suspect many questions were asked and Lionel has people on his team that can properly interpret the data.
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