Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ajax Bay wrote:
chrisb12 wrote:
The important thing is here, world tri let the athletes down, and it isn't the first time. I can think of 6 wtcs off the top of my head where a number of athletes have become sick. I assume there are more. Of course it can't be proven it was the water if the athletes aren't tested soon after, but when they aren't all eating in the same places or hanging out in close contact it is a very large coincidence.
You do seem to have been super-vociferous on this and keep stoking it. Have you a dog in this fight?
However, "the important thing here" are the post-testing facts.
It seems that tests suggest it was not e-coli from the water caused sickness before MTR but Norovirus (person-to-person) - ITV report:
"Norovirus is the "most likely" explanation for 88 athletes becoming unwell after the World Triathlon Championship series racing in Sunderland, the UK Health Security Agency North East said."
UK HSA:"After the event, 88 people contacted the North East Health Protection Team to report experiencing diarrhoea and/or vomiting symptoms after the event. 31 faecal samples were then sent to be tested for a range of viral and bacterial pathogens.
" 19 showed evidence of Norovirus infection while the remaining samples either tested negative or were positive for other infections including sapovirus, astrovirus and rotavirus.
"E.coli was present in four samples but not the kind associated with severe illness. It can be carried naturally in the gut of healthy individuals, so it is not possible to say whether the presence is a result of participation in the event.
“Norovirus is a very unpleasant stomach bug but tends to pass after a few days with most people usually making a complete recovery without any specific treatment. Norovirus can easily spread from person to person, particularly in large groups."
https://www.itv.com/...land-world-triathlon


"Norovirus makes its way into the marine environment through untreated human sewage (poop) and vomit. This may come from leaky septic systems, faulty waste water treatment plants, boaters, or beach-goers."

I am an Aus, our Aus team was just one of the effected teams who had to scramble to find reserves to fill the relay team, from whomever they could find with an Aus suit who was there or nearby. Others also became unwell after the event. I have a personal interest in health and gut health. So yeah, something was up and is being brushed aside.
A bit of an environmentalist who is seeing what we are doing to our planet and governments are ignoring.
Last edited by: chrisb12: Aug 15, 23 18:18
Quote Reply
Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Chowders wrote:
chrisb12 wrote:
There is questionable but then this is outright obvious. 3900 compared to a cancel at 250. Some pictures of athletes lined up to start and the water is brown, not an ocean colour at all. The colour alone should have had them looking for data and concerned.
kajet wrote:
Richard Murray did not mince words about World Triathlon and British Triathlon's failure to provide a safe racing environment.
Quote:
Will do my best and hope the body responds after a few days of ecoli poisoning , thanks @brittri @worldtriathlon 😣 In the future I hope we as a sport take athletes health and lives into better consideration. As it seems we are NOT a priority in any way.
. . . about water quality.
On race-day(s), maybe the water was safe and maybe it wasn’t. Has anyone seen or know of a test result from the day(s) of competition?

EDIT to update: I just received an email (sent to all participants) from British Triathlon acknowledging that some athletes reported sickness (which is now being investigated by relevant authorities) and that the test on Wed 26th showed high levels of e.coli. They say the test on the 26th was not taken in the harbour area where the swims took place (but instead on the other side of the pier) … hmmm. More clearly though, they shared the results of 2 tests done on Sun 30th (AG race + MTR). The e.coli levels in those samples were 10/100ml and 45/100ml - so a safe level. No mention of the water quality on Sat 29th when the individual elite and junior races were held.

Thought I'd follow this up now the EHSA report has been published.
https://www.britishtriathlon.org/...y-final-07_12_23.pdf
Exec Summary:
1.5 Conclusion
This was an outbreak of gastro-intestinal (GI) infection, mainly caused by norovirus, affecting
participants in a large triathlon event, with over 1,200 people taking part over a two day
period.
The spread of cases across all classes / type of race and both days of the event and the
absence of any evidence of exposures to a single food source or common pre- or post-event
activity made person-to-person spread or contact with a contaminated shared environment
other than the race course seem less plausible, and the OCT concluded that the common
exposure of all cases having swum in the sea was the most likely source of infection
Open water swimming is known to be associated with risk of GI illness with outbreaks
reported in many countries involving a range of pathogens. There is well-publicised advice
about reducing the risk of illness, focusing on general hygiene measures both during and
after swimming but the challenge in events like this, particularly triathlons where the
swimming is the first part of the event, is that athletes are unlikely to take time during the
competition to take these actions. They are also likely to have hand-to-mouth contact when
drinking / eating during the rest of the event.

Other snippets:
(Only) one out of 32 confirmed infections was e-coli.
BriTri: "As with all WTCS events, tests were carried out across the event weekend in the event swim area. These tests were in line with WTS guidelines for hosting such an event and returned excellent water quality results."
"The microbiological testing that is undertaken for assessing water quality uses faecal
indicator organisms (E coli species) and, importantly in this case, does not include testing for
norovirus"

So is there a level of norovirus in water above which the risk of GI is too great? Does the TRI required test protocol test the 'excellent water' for that? Can you test for it?
How's the Seine Austerlitz water storage basin project doing? On schedule?
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Feb 26, 24 12:03
Quote Reply
Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Excellent find. Since I have* PhDs in marine biology and immunology, this find made me curious. Did the British ruin their own race through inadequate sewage treatment or did they not? So it appears that people contaminate shallow waters with the norovirus the exact same way they do with e.coli.

The working group concluded there were several transmission routes of norovirus into the marine environment. All originated from human sewage sources.

http://www.bccdc.ca/...-water-contamination

*(I don't)

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Quote Reply
Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [kajet] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm hoping that there are knowledgeable people on here that can help us understand this. Completely lay person here, but keen that any lessons are identified and measures (need to be practical) be put in hand to make any changes necessary. No changey; no learney.

Here's the water test report for Roker Beach on two relevant dates: "TRI/BriTri tests were carried out".
Tests were to determine E. coli Enterococci and pH levels.

https://www.triathlon.org/...tement%2BMatrix1.pdf

[edited] "health problem due to contaminated swimming water is associated with microbiological contamination. . .
. . . most important is human and animal faecal contamination: "associated pathogens: enterococci/faecal streptococci, E.Coli, faecal coliformi, total coliform, salmonella, shigella, campylobacter, vibrio cholera, gastro enteritis viruses, enteroviruses, parasitic protozoa, some other exotic parasites, Aeromonas and Plesiomonas."
The two bold ones are tested for, assume as markers of contamination to allow judgement of water quality.
"Faecal contamination can harbour many potentially pathogens. It is not feasible to test all those micro organisms. Further on there is also a lack of data considering the quantitative relationship of the concentration of many of those pathogens and the risks of disease. Especially the viruses are the most hazardous."
"Commonly used indicator
Bacterial indicators of faecal contamination considered are enterococci/faecal streptococci,
E.Coli, faecal coliformi and total coliform. Thermotolerant coliform bacteria are present in
human and animal faeces. However they also occur in other environments that bear no
relationship to faecal contamination (discharge from paper industry, brewery’s etc).
Escherichia coli (E.Coli) is a species of faecal coliform that is specific for faecal material from
humans and other warm-blooded animals. Enterococci are a subgroup within the faecal
streptococcus group and are distinguished by their ability to survive in salt water. Faecal
coliforms as a group were determined to be a poor indicator of the risk of GI illness (US EPA
2002)."
"Bacterial and or viral tests
. . the microbiological quality of waters has been measured by the analysis of indicator microorganisms. Human enteric virus are the most likely pathogens responsible for waterborne diseases from recreational water, but detection
methods are complex and costly for routine monitoring
and so the main parameters analysed for compliance with the Directive are indicator organisms.
EEA Standards
The Directive 2006/7/EC reduced the number of parameters from 19 to 2 key
microbiological parameters and the faecal contamination is assessed by
determination of two mandatory indicator bacteria:
• Escherichia Coli
• Enterococci
The choice of microbiological parameters is based on available scientific evidence provided by epidemiological studies conducted by the WHO and health Institutes in Germany, France and Netherlands.

Is the current TRI water quality test protocol fit for purpose? (idk)

https://www.britishtriathlon.org/...-report-07_12_23.pdf
"Open water swimming is known to be associated with risk of GI illness with outbreaks reported in many countries involving a range of pathogens. There is well-publicised advice about reducing the risk of illness, focusing on general hygiene measures both during (don’t put head under water, don’t swallow water) and after swimming (wash hands / shower asap after swimming, . . . ) but the challenge in . . . triathlons where the swimming is the first part of the event, is that athletes [have to put head in water, are likely to involuntarily swallow water and are unlikely to take time during the competition to [wash hands or shower]"
I also picked up / deduced (and this relevant to an event which is individual one day and relay a day later) that if there's any doubt about water quality, maybe better to pass on the swim familiarisation, or at least be super careful and take the hygiene measures described to above.
Quote Reply
Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ajax Bay wrote:
I'm hoping that there are knowledgeable people on here that can help us understand this. Completely lay person here, but keen that any lessons are identified and measures (need to be practical) be put in hand to make any changes necessary. No changey; no learney.

Here's the water test report for Roker Beach on two relevant dates: "TRI/BriTri tests were carried out".
Tests were to determine E. coli Enterococci and pH levels.

https://www.triathlon.org/...tement%2BMatrix1.pdf

[edited] "health problem due to contaminated swimming water is associated with microbiological contamination. . .
. . . most important is human and animal faecal contamination: "associated pathogens: enterococci/faecal streptococci, E.Coli, faecal coliformi, total coliform, salmonella, shigella, campylobacter, vibrio cholera, gastro enteritis viruses, enteroviruses, parasitic protozoa, some other exotic parasites, Aeromonas and Plesiomonas."
The two bold ones are tested for, assume as markers of contamination to allow judgement of water quality.
"Faecal contamination can harbour many potentially pathogens. It is not feasible to test all those micro organisms. Further on there is also a lack of data considering the quantitative relationship of the concentration of many of those pathogens and the risks of disease. Especially the viruses are the most hazardous."
"Commonly used indicator
Bacterial indicators of faecal contamination considered are enterococci/faecal streptococci,
E.Coli, faecal coliformi and total coliform. Thermotolerant coliform bacteria are present in
human and animal faeces. However they also occur in other environments that bear no
relationship to faecal contamination (discharge from paper industry, brewery’s etc).
Escherichia coli (E.Coli) is a species of faecal coliform that is specific for faecal material from
humans and other warm-blooded animals. Enterococci are a subgroup within the faecal
streptococcus group and are distinguished by their ability to survive in salt water. Faecal
coliforms as a group were determined to be a poor indicator of the risk of GI illness (US EPA
2002)."
"Bacterial and or viral tests
. . the microbiological quality of waters has been measured by the analysis of indicator microorganisms. Human enteric virus are the most likely pathogens responsible for waterborne diseases from recreational water, but detection
methods are complex and costly for routine monitoring
and so the main parameters analysed for compliance with the Directive are indicator organisms.
EEA Standards
The Directive 2006/7/EC reduced the number of parameters from 19 to 2 key
microbiological parameters and the faecal contamination is assessed by
determination of two mandatory indicator bacteria:
• Escherichia Coli
• Enterococci
The choice of microbiological parameters is based on available scientific evidence provided by epidemiological studies conducted by the WHO and health Institutes in Germany, France and Netherlands.

Is the current TRI water quality test protocol fit for purpose? (idk)

https://www.britishtriathlon.org/...-report-07_12_23.pdf
"Open water swimming is known to be associated with risk of GI illness with outbreaks reported in many countries involving a range of pathogens. There is well-publicised advice about reducing the risk of illness, focusing on general hygiene measures both during (don’t put head under water, don’t swallow water) and after swimming (wash hands / shower asap after swimming, . . . ) but the challenge in . . . triathlons where the swimming is the first part of the event, is that athletes [have to put head in water, are likely to involuntarily swallow water and are unlikely to take time during the competition to [wash hands or shower]"
I also picked up / deduced (and this relevant to an event which is individual one day and relay a day later) that if there's any doubt about water quality, maybe better to pass on the swim familiarisation, or at least be super careful and take the hygiene measures described to above.

i am no expert at all but what irks me in the report is this

"Open water swimming is known to be associated with risk of GI illness with outbreaks reported in many countries involving a range of pathogens.

call a spade a spade and say, because the uk government does not care about water quality the water quality in the uk is getting worse, increasing the the risk of open water swimming.

other countries are improving while the uk is getting worse but they pretend this is normal ,
when this is not really the case.

https://www.positive.news/...ies-offer-solutions/
Quote Reply

Prev Next