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Sunderland WTCS ITU
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No Luis, Blum or Yee for the men but the rest of the French will be in attendance.

Most the top women giving this a miss, Duffy/GTB (injured) Colwell, Potter, Spivey and Knibb all missing.

No idea what to expect from Sunderland, seems a bit of an odd place to host a WTS race, (no offence to any reading Mackems)

Edit, just seen Gwens name on the start list, there doesn't look to be the bike fire power there to make any break stick, she could end up getting a decent result out of this.
Last edited by: Jackets: Jul 26, 23 6:41
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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New race destination, so know nothing about it. Is it Leeds like or have World Triathlon managed to find another boring flat bike course?
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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I built up the course on ride with gps. It’s not “dead flat” but it only seemed to be about 40’ of gain

I think there is a segment kinda riding on a tighter road through a park.

It’ll be interesting to see if KZ can take a select group to get away or if she waits for the run.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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KZ isn't on the start list.
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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ah ok yes that makes sense. She was originally and now that she's on Paris, makes sense to skip it. I couldn't remember if she withdrew or not.

In that case I would guess it's going to come together. Should be a great result for GJ.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jonny also giving this one a miss, I'm quite disappointed all the top Brits are giving their home race a miss (Any reason this is happening that's gone over my head?)

We're already having an ITU race in one of the most unfashionable cities in the county and all our top triathletes are chosing not to race.

Next year I believe no ITU race in the UK for the first time for as long as I can remember, seems no one can be arsed!
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
ah ok yes that makes sense. She was originally and now that she's on Paris, makes sense to skip it. I couldn't remember if she withdrew or not.

In that case I would guess it's going to come together. Should be a great result for GJ.

Be surprised not to see Gwen run herself into a top 10, with an easy come together bike she could go better than that, is this a sprint or Oly distance? The only women I don't see her out running at sprint is CB off a slow bike.
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Sprint + MTR

(Also keep in mind the test event is 3 weeks ago)

I have some issues with how WT does their calendar. I wish they would stick to 1 event a month from basically March or April through Sept. Why they start in early March then take what 2 months off and then do 3 races in what a 5 week period with the final race being the test event. I thought the Hamburg format really put a lot on the athletes. That format of racing + break + racing over 2 days and then a 3rd day of MTR. Athlete safety was def on the back burner there.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Jul 25, 23 18:50
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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I think Periault, Lombardi and CB could be the only 3 potentially keeping Gwen off the podium.
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Sprint + MTR

(Also keep in mind the test event is 3 weeks ago)

I have some issues with how WT does their calendar. I wish they would stick to 1 event a month from basically March or April through Sept. Why they start in early March then take what 2 months off and then do 3 races in what a 5 week period with the final race being the test event. I thought the Hamburg format really put a lot on the athletes. That format of racing + break + racing over 2 days and then a 3rd day of MTR. Athlete safety was def on the back burner there.

The calendar is a really hard one. Remember athletes from southern hemisphere have a lot of extra travel to do if the season is extended too much. With some countries athletes without dual passports, they have issues with the 90 day rule and need to be able to travel and stay some time out of Schengen zone during the season. Also I think it starts so early as Abudhabi is way too hot in the summer season so has to hold races earlier or later, and then many other countries are too cold for quite a few more months. I don't think WTS has the luxury of being choosy at the moment.
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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chrisb12 wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
Sprint + MTR

(Also keep in mind the test event is 3 weeks ago)

I have some issues with how WT does their calendar. I wish they would stick to 1 event a month from basically March or April through Sept. Why they start in early March then take what 2 months off and then do 3 races in what a 5 week period with the final race being the test event. I thought the Hamburg format really put a lot on the athletes. That format of racing + break + racing over 2 days and then a 3rd day of MTR. Athlete safety was def on the back burner there.


The calendar is a really hard one. Remember athletes from southern hemisphere have a lot of extra travel to do if the season is extended too much. With some countries athletes without dual passports, they have issues with the 90 day rule and need to be able to travel and stay some time out of Schengen zone during the season. Also I think it starts so early as Abudhabi is way too hot in the summer season so has to hold races earlier or later, and then many other countries are too cold for quite a few more months. I don't think WTS has the luxury of being choosy at the moment.

I think it is going to get worse as well. No London next year and only 1 race confirmed (grand final). It just costs too much to put on a race like this. ÂŁ700k and local authorities are facing a real cost of living crisis.

Interesting article in the French press saying they have spent 1.2bn euros cleaning up the Seine ready for the Olympics. Swimming has been banned since 1923 so it will be interesting to see what the water quality tests are like for the test event. Can see people getting ill after that.
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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Diabolo wrote:
New race destination, so know nothing about it. Is it Leeds like or have World Triathlon managed to find another boring flat bike course?

I did the age group race at the first race they did in Leeds (2016 I think). I've still not got over how terrible it was (not particularly the course but the lack of info and organisation). I never went back, hope they changed the organiser since then.
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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(It's "WTCS").

The picks are a crapshoot as usual, so I'm happy to share them.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [kajet] [ In reply to ]
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I read the news: no WTCS races in UK next year. Is it because the Brownlees´boom is over? Hope the series do not start to fall apart. IMO, triathlon bodies (WT, PTO) have to start scratching their heads to attract more media because the sport is in decline.
This race seems more a world cup than a wtcs. The men race will be clearly for Wilde. As for the women, Lombardi and Beaugraund (I bet for the 1st) seem untouchable..Gwen can be top 5, ..podium is a big call.

Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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juanillo wrote:
I read the news: no WTCS races in UK next year. Is it because the Brownlees´boom is over?

No, it is because Leeds can't afford to host in the current economic situation - same as Victoria pulling out of hosting the Commonwealth Games. Sports events need to make hosting them more affordable.
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Island] [ In reply to ]
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Island wrote:
I did the age group race at the first race they did in Leeds (2016 I think). I've still not got over how terrible it was (not particularly the course but the lack of info and organisation). I never went back, hope they changed the organiser since then.

I did that race and my wife volunteered. I believe that WTCS contracted out the race organisation (possibly to Ironman but I might have that wrong) and it was a complete disaster. It also cost an absolute packet compared to the races that were already here. I have never been back.

I live not 10 miles from the race venue, and before WTCS tuned up we had several local open water Olympic events which died off to make way for the race. They have not come back and now we have nothing in the way of a local open water event. So much for legacy. It was a horribly organised race that was there purely to pay for the WTCS elites to race. Its left a bad taste with a lot of athletes around here. They turned up, make a total hash of it for several years, buggered off, left nothing and took what was already here.

I have no idea how or why Sunderland was chosen.

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [earthling] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I think it might have been Ironman who “organised” it. Zero communication before the race, incorrect information when we did get some - but then abandoning everyone’s kit in Roundhay was the final straw! Absolute shit show.
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [earthling] [ In reply to ]
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Yes I competed in that 2016 race. It was utterly awful, not just the baggage not getting back from the swim venue to finish.

There were c5000 athletes IIRC, I just remember weaving through a thicket of human bodies on the run and barely being able to race the bike. Discarded syringes in the stony car park that was T2.

Fairly sure the organisation running it bailed in the last few days; didn't Ironman step in at the last minute, complete hospital pass, no time to re-assess anything.

It was well supported in the City centre, but the covid inspired move to Roundhay sapped that.

Pro races were good though, complete and utter masterclasses from AB and Gwen.
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [TRO Saracen] [ In reply to ]
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Was this the year AB made the front group. jB and Gomez didn’t. So AB told the front group of 3 “be right back”. Went and got JB and proceeded to drop Gomez, allowing both brothers to make it into front group.

It might have been the most magnificent show of power move in the sport.

Drop yourself, pull someone back to the front all in the matter of 5 mins.

Tommy Zaferes has a funny story about how AB “behaves” in the front group. He told the story rhat AB rolled up to TZ “pull or your out” when it was like 6 of them in front group at Wtcs race (probably 2014-2016 time frame). TZ is on the limit just to hold the wheels in front pack mind you. AB gave him 1 more warning. TZ couldn’t pull through so AB went to the front for a quick acceleration and off the back Tommy went. Now mind you, TZ wasn’t mad or upset. He said the amazing part was that he not only told him he was going to drop him, but to go and do it like it was nothing. That dude could ride a bike.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Was this the year AB made the front group. jB and Gomez didn’t. So AB told the front group of 3 “be right back”. Went and got JB and proceeded to drop Gomez, allowing both brothers to make it into front group.

It might have been the most magnificent show of power move in the sport.

Drop yourself, pull someone back to the front all in the matter of 5 mins.

Tommy Zaferes has a funny story about how AB “behaves” in the front group. He told the story rhat AB rolled up to TZ “pull or your out” when it was like 6 of them in front group at Wtcs race (probably 2014-2016 time frame). TZ is on the limit just to hold the wheels in front pack mind you. AB gave him 1 more warning. TZ couldn’t pull through so AB went to the front for a quick acceleration and off the back Tommy went. Now mind you, TZ wasn’t mad or upset. He said the amazing part was that he not only told him he was going to drop him, but to go and do it like it was nothing. That dude could ride a bike.

That was peak Brownlee era. Say what you want about his fragility of late when it comes to injury, but when he was on his game, he was really playing triathlon with the field, and was utterly dominant, not afraid to work for the outcome that he wanted. You don't see as much of this in the elite fields anymore with more parity...

In terms of Sunderland, the biggest factor will be the frigid swim and the cooler air temperatures. That's a big wild card in terms of how people's bodies respond out of the water early into the bike. On paper it seems like this is primed for GJ to score a decent result, depending on how she responds to the conditions. There are a few that could go clear on the bike, mostly the french trio of Beaugrand, Lombardi and Perrieault... The other key factor is that this is a sprint distance, so if anyone has a poor swim and someone injects pace on the bike, they could be hooped, especially with the frigid water temps, and the uncertainty about how people will respond to it (likely to be wetsuit mandatory conditions, and depending on air-temps combined with the water-temps on race day, it could be nearing the threshold for cancelling the swim). I suspect that the races will be wide open, which will make for good viewing, but the unfortunate scheduling of the event in respect to the Paris Test event, means that many big names are giving it a pass to focus on trying to secure an auto-selection for the Olympics two weeks later at the test event...

In terms of why Sunderland, likely a lot has to do with what municipality was willing to put up the cash to host the event. As others have mentioned, with the current economic climate, and the cost of putting on these events, GB looks to be giving the WTCS a pass next season (which is too bad with the strength of some of their current athletes).

We harp on how vanilla some of the courses are, but the reality is that with the costs of putting on events at that level, it tends to be the same limited set of venues that are willing to invest in hosting the events, and the odd time that new cities emerge, they want to show-off some of the key landmarks of the city, and are not necessarily conducive to interesting courses. Will be interesting to see what the WTCS calendar looks like next year around the OG...
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
In terms of Sunderland, the biggest factor will be the frigid swim and the cooler air temperatures. That's a big wild card in terms of how people's bodies respond out of the water early into the bike. On paper it seems like this is primed for GJ to score a decent result, depending on how she responds to the conditions. There are a few that could go clear on the bike, mostly the french trio of Beaugrand, Lombardi and Perrieault... The other key factor is that this is a sprint distance, so if anyone has a poor swim and someone injects pace on the bike, they could be hooped, especially with the frigid water temps, and the uncertainty about how people will respond to it (likely to be wetsuit mandatory conditions, and depending on air-temps combined with the water-temps on race day, it could be nearing the threshold for cancelling the swim).


Air temp is 19/20ÂşC. Sea temp is 14ÂşC, what is the minimum? https://www.seatemperature.org/...ngdom/sunderland.htm
Last edited by: Island: Jul 26, 23 5:46
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Re: Sunderland WTCS ITU [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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To be fair to Sunderland, if it wasn't for work I'd have actually have gone up and made a weekend out of it, bet its a decent night out (Leeds was!)
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Re: Sunderland WTSC ITU [Island] [ In reply to ]
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That should be fine, I saw posts from athletes that were there that it was air temps and water temps around 12-13C earlier this week
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Re: Sunderland WTCS ITU [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Very disappointing that almost all the best British athletes are missing. Sunderland council has undoubtedly stumped up a lot of money (ÂŁ500,000?) and deserved better from British Triathlon. Can they really use the Paris test event as an excuse, it's three weeks away and a race now is probably at an ideal time. On the plus side the weather forecast for Saturday at least looks half decent, holding an event this far north is always a gamble. The North East has always been at the forefront of triathlon in the UK, with some great clubs and races so I'm sure the event will be well supported by local people.
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Re: Sunderland WTCS ITU [Joss1965] [ In reply to ]
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Joss1965 wrote:
Very disappointing that almost all the best British athletes are missing. Sunderland council has undoubtedly stumped up a lot of money (ÂŁ500,000?) and deserved better from British Triathlon. Can they really use the Paris test event as an excuse, it's three weeks away and a race now is probably at an ideal time. On the plus side the weather forecast for Saturday at least looks half decent, holding an event this far north is always a gamble. The North East has always been at the forefront of triathlon in the UK, with some great clubs and races so I'm sure the event will be well supported by local people.


Yee and Jonny are guaranteed to qualify if fit, for the first time in many an Olympics we have three females who a clear levels better than the rest, the slots are already sewn up!

I'd be pretty annoyed if I'd paid out on travel and hotels for the family etc months ago, to make a weekend out of it and read the start list, French are giving this race more respect than we are!
Last edited by: Jackets: Jul 26, 23 7:29
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