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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I transposed the numbers. Stolen from here: Vaughan—Woodbridge (provincial electoral district) - Wikipedia

I'm off for my afternoon coffee.

He's using metric not imperial

Ford got 41 percent of the popular vote which means 59 percent for the other guys which is less than 2/3. Also better than what the federal liberals got in the last election. I don't think he is a great guy but the alternatives where not good. In our riding the liberals dropped a candidate because of something stupid he said when he was 13 years old. Just threw him under the bus. With friends like that ....

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Add me to the everyone else except for you that thinks Ford is a pretty terrible leader. His election strategy was to hide. His pandemic strategy was to hide behind his puppet of a chief medical officer and hide behind Lecce.

Ford knew that the opposition had no real chance of winning, so he just kept hiding. If you think that is l e a d e r s h i p I guess I can see why you voted for him.

Ford got 41 percent of the popular vote which means 59 percent for the other guys which is less than 2/3. Also better than what the federal liberals got in the last election. I don't think he is a great guy but the alternatives where not good. In our riding the liberals dropped a candidate because of something stupid he said when he was 13 years old. Just threw him under the bus. With friends like that ...


OK we can split numbers on the PC/Ford Vote. No matter how you look at it a MINORITY of Voters elected Doug Ford to a MAJORITY Gov't.

The voter turnout as I noted previous was terrible! Typically that plays into Conservatives hands - which is fine. I get that. And again just like 2018 there was a significant vote split on the Left almost exactly 50/50 this time.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Awe yes the pseudo left (actually centrist) Liberals suddenly want to identify with the true left NDP when they can't gain power over the Progressive Conservatives (the other centrists). LOL

Out of curiosity can you share the last time a majority government was elected in Ontario with greater than 50% of the popular vote?

Awe yes the pseudo left (actually centrist) Liberals suddenly want to identify with the true left NDP when they can't gain power over the Progressive Conservatives (the other centrists). LOL


May I suggest that we just set the political partisanship aside.

I'd be happy with any competent, manager of the Gov't of Ontario, who does not brazenly lie, and is not so ridiculously hypocritical. Doug Ford - "We are the most accountable and transparent Gov't that Ontario has ever had"! Doug refuses to release Cabinet Mandate letters battling in the courts all the way to the supreme Court of Canada to keep them secret. Running a campaign where, Doug barely spoke to any media, hosted many restricted access campaign events and issued an edict that NO Candidates would attend any Candidates Debates or answer any questions from the Media!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Nope, Liberals and Conservatives are more alike than Liberals and NDP, the very idea that the NDP and Liberals align together is a desperate ploy for power rather than putting the will of the people as a priority. Frankly, the idea that small people Liberals are more aligned with NDP values is outright BULLSHIT.

You would have to go back to the 1920s for that. In the 1990s (Mike Harris) and the 2000s (Dalton Mcguinty) parties got the to mid 40s in popular vote percentage.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I'd be happy with a federal gov't that was transparent and competent and didn't brazenly lie. Which we seemed to have with Mr. Cretien and Harper. I seem to recall Mr. Trudeau saying he was going to get rid of first past the post. But here we are. Windsor went almost entirely Conservative. They are happy they are getting new jobs for electric battery production and electric car production. I wish it was not Doug leading the Conservatives. He essentially engineered a hostile takeover to become the leader back in 2018.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Respectfully Steve, you are incapable of that. I have pointed out to you before when Liberals have done something that you railed on the Conservatives for and you have just shrugged your shoulders and made an excuse. So I have a hard time taking you seriously when you say things like the above. Doug is certainly not the best person for the job, however, in this instance he was the best of the 4.
I am curious whether you voted strategically this time around or whether you voted down party lines?

Respectfully Steve, you are incapable of that. I have pointed out to you before when Liberals have done something that you railed on the Conservatives for and you have just shrugged your shoulders and made an excuse. So I have a hard time taking you seriously when you say things like the above. Doug is certainly not the best person for the job, however, in this instance he was the best of the 4.
I am curious whether you voted strategically this time around or whether you voted down party lines?


Wow! How do you know what I am capable of?

Can you please give me an example of the second point?

At least we are in agreement that Doug Ford is NOT the best person for the job.

I disagree with you that he was "the best of the 4". What parameters are you using to make that decision? If you are talking about pure capabilities, away from Party affiliation, Mike Schreiner, the Green Party Leader is far and away the best of this group. I voted Liberal this time, not out of a point of strategic voting, but in listening closely to what he said, his background, his education, and just generally his personality - I was going with the person, not the Party. The Conservative Candidate, gave no interviews with local media, did not attend the Candidates Debates. Refused to engage in a survey, that the local Hospital was doing, with all Candidates. All of that ruled her out for me. But she still won!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I seem to recall Mr. Trudeau saying he was going to get rid of first past the post.


FWIW - Big disappointment for me as well!

But honestly, I don't think Canadians are ready for Electoral Reform. We desperately need it. Many other countries similar to Canada, socio-economically have gone that route. The Trudeau Gov't to their credit did launch a National Inquiry into ER and found that, exactly what I just mentioned - Canadians are not ready for it. They could have done a National referendum on it, but a move to ER would have lost on that ballot! So the Liberals and the PM lost interest at that point.

I sense our general civic awareness, knowledge and engagement is VERY low right now. In comments I see on Social Media over and over, and in talking with average folk, that I meet here and there, there seems to be a poor understanding of the Parliamentary system we currently have in place! My sense is that's why ER, with it's subtle nuances, may be a challenge.

What I find disappointing from almost everyone in Gov't is a lack of energy to educate and engage with Canadians about the advantages of ER - and why we should go there. Some Gov'ts (Notably the Ford Gov't in Ontario), have even gone so far as to forbid, with legislation, lower levels of Gov't at the municipal level to even open up the question of ER at that level (In the Ontario Constitution - Municipal Gov'ts are Creatures of the Provincial Gov't). Whay would they do that?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Do you remember the last time a Liberal government prorogued parliament? Do you remember your repsonse to it vs what your response was Harper did it?
Sorry, I didn't mean for my response to sound "attacky" but from what I observe, you aren't able to kudos to any party/person that isn't on the liberal side of the fence.
Unfortunately voting for the person you like/prefer will never likely get you want. If you truly wanted him out, you would have had to vote strategically but even then I don't think it would have helped this time around.

Sorry, I didn't mean for my response to sound "attacky" but from what I observe, you aren't able to kudos to any party/person that isn't on the liberal side of the fence.
Unfortunately voting for the person you like/prefer will never likely get you want. If you truly wanted him out, you would have had to vote strategically but even then I don't think it would have helped this time around.


Incorrect on the first point - Patrick Brown was a fully capable Leader of the OPC Party, ( I had met him a few times personally thru some mutual friends) and had some interesting and progressive policies in ideas he was putting forward . . I would have given Patrick and the OPC under him some serious consideration . . . but then . . . poof . . gone! And Doug Ford in as leader! The timing on all of that and the HUGE Party Policy flip-flop, and philosophical shift that went on with all of that is rather mysterious. There is more to that story that, we don't know, and knowing the Ford Family, they are doing everything they can to keep that all quiet.

Success at Strategic Voting when it does work, requires a generous turn-out, as previously noted - it was a worst ever turn out! I had a sinking feeling in our riding, when I saw some early polling, that it was NEVER going to work. The PC Candidate, was always well out in front - with a bigger lead than the last PC MPP had at the last election. A Floor Mop could have run in in riding and won. :-)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

lol, Steve, this is exactly what I am talking about. You say you are disappointed in the Liberals but then give them a pass/excuse "But honestly, I don't think Canadians are ready for Electoral Reform." The Federal Liberals have failed so hard since taking power you should be all over them. No clean water for Indiginous folks yet, no electoral reform. But he did make Pot legal so that's nice for some folks. All I ask is to be critial with every one and don't cherry pick. Even in post where you started talking about Trudeau, you ended by criticising Ford. There was no need for it. You are a smart guy, just make sure you don't have blinders on.

Reading through the responses both before and after the election I am saddened by one element. This is a parliamentary system, a party can be elected while a party leader could lose their seat. Doesn't happen often but to some degree it happened here. Del Duca lost his seat while the party he led received the second highest number of votes. I don't vote for the leader, unless by happenstance they are my local representative. As such I am free to vote for the platform locally and in this case provincially. And what a platform it was that the Conservatives rolled out.

What exactly did they have to offer. An almost complete lack of interest in climate change policies, a commitment to overriding local planning and governance by using ministerial orders. A continued a "car is king" policy of new highways. Removing incentives for electric vehicles. Touting mining in the north without indigenous input. Removed minimum wage and guaranteed income incentives, before finally allowing a rise four years later, without allowing for inflation so a backward step. A war with the teachers and the nurses (wage restraint legislation). They were last to the table on the childcare, behind even Alberta, for a free ride from Ottawa, but managed it just before the election. Such integrity.

I can give them kudos for getting some industry to move here, the battery plant for example, before wondering if that happened because it's market access to the US is assured without the madness that is US politics. Oh and sucking up to Trudeau, Doug's absolute nemesis. And who forget the wonderful job they did in promoting a huge increase in LTC beds, notwithstanding they gave half of them to private owners who had a death rate six times higher than community owned homes, one of the highest rates in the world. Don't even get me started on Healthcare and education. Yeah he done good! and they're such good guys and gals.

That was the platform the Tory voters supported and those that couldn't be bothered to turn out. But of course Del Duca was involved, peripherally, in a 600 million dollar mistake, due mostly to ignorance of the penalty clauses (bad advice) in a bid to assuage local concerns (sure and get a few votes in the process) so we can forgive Doug and his cohorts, underspending by several billion the money they got from Ottawa during the pandemic and the several billion they will spend, courting the burbs, to save 40 seconds on a car journey in Toronto. Let's not even look at the deficit. Because heck what's a few billion against Del Ducas crime of being a bit dull and previously working for a lesbian premier.

But hey, Doug's a good guy, with a shovel, so the party must be good guys with unimpeachable intentions.
And so what if they've made a few friends of the party, very rich.
Educated voters went ahead and voted for that platform.
Doug shovelled more than just snow.
Spare me.

Rant over...:0)

Your twitter account is full of examples... where do you want him to start? You're definitely partisan, it's not even a question. What's more worrisome is that you don't recognize it.

Your twitter account is full of examples... where do you want him to start? You're definitely partisan, it's not even a question. What's more worrisome is that you don't recognize it.


Stalking me on Twitter! Wow! :-)

Partisan? Yes - in that I want competency, accountability, and forward and progressive thinking and actions on our most existential challenges such as climate change and the huge challenges we face with healthcare in Canada. There is a healthcare and elder care cost tsunami that is lurking around the corner and down the road by about 15 years that NO ONE of any political stripe, is talking about right now. NO ONE! Not even the Liberals - that, I know you want to lump me in with!!

I regularly reach out about all of this, as well as promotions for active lifestyles and lives, to ALL of my key political representatives at the municipal level, provincial and the federal. And here's who I hear back from - the Mayor of the city where I live, and my Federal Liberal MP. I have written THE SAME letters to my Conservative Provincial MPP, but she's never, ever written me back, and never even acknowledges receipt of those eMails!

We are hoping to and planning to have a new 50m pool built in our community. We have hade great buy-in from private and public stakeholders. We invited to a Meeting - the Local Provincial Conservative MPP, the Mayor of our city, our local Liberal Federal MP, and the Liberal Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Sport and the Minister of Health. We never heard back from the Conservative MPP (from the Doug Ford Gov't). Just ignored us. Everyone else got together and we had a very progressive meeting. If we never hear back from the Conservatives . . what does that mean? We have no idea! It's OK, we feel we have enough buy-in, and support that we can move forward without them. Partisan - sure - but we put the same offer to get involved, to everyone across all party lines, and you can choose to get involved and help out . . or not!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog