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Home > Forum > Triathlon Forum > Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars.

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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison
Mar 17, 21 11:22
Post #51 of 71 (1273 views)
jimatbeyond wrote:
Since you are replacing the crankset, you should replace the bottom bracket too. They are cheap.

This Enduro Bearings BB is what's on there. $200.

The cheap ones I'm seeing online look different. Does any $20 Hollowtech II BB work??

It's a 2019 Cannondale Supersix Evo HiMod with "BB30" printed near the bottom bracket.

Someone educate me here. I know nothing about bottom brackets but would love to learn.
Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [sausskross] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison
Mar 17, 21 11:23
Post #52 of 71 (1272 views)
sausskross wrote:
.. the chain can jump of the small chainring easier with not enough "pre-tension" ..
Makes sense! Thank you for all your insight in this thread.
Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison
Mar 17, 21 11:29
Post #53 of 71 (1267 views)
OneGoodLeg wrote:
3) easiest way to test the B-screw function to tension the chain rearward is to just slip the chain off the front rings so it's slack ~ does the RD automatically swing all the way back?

Nope! It sure doesn't. It has enough tension to hold it all the way back but barely. It mostly will just flop around without much pressure applied to cause movement.

OneGoodLeg wrote:
You can simply pivot it forward/back on the hanger w/ your hand and feel the spring tension (or at least you should if it's working properly).

Not much tension at all. Very slack, but not completely free-pivoting.

Safe to assume replacing that spring solves the RD-specific issues completely?

This has been a very educational experience for me!
Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond
Mar 17, 21 12:37
Post #54 of 71 (1253 views)
DrAlexHarrison wrote:
jimatbeyond wrote:
Since you are replacing the crankset, you should replace the bottom bracket too. They are cheap.

This Enduro Bearings BB is what's on there. $200.

The cheap ones I'm seeing online look different. Does any $20 Hollowtech II BB work??

It's a 2019 Cannondale Supersix Evo HiMod with "BB30" printed near the bottom bracket.

Someone educate me here. I know nothing about bottom brackets but would love to learn.


That Enduro bottom bracket should be good. Just put your finger inside the bearing when the crankset is removed and rotate the inner race to make sure that the bearings are smooth.

A standard Shimano bottom bracket will not fit your frame.
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison
Mar 17, 21 13:25
Post #55 of 71 (1241 views)
Thank you!!
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison
Mar 27, 21 23:01
Post #56 of 71 (1188 views)
Update if you're still following and I still need help!

How do I get a Shimano Ultegra crankset to work with this bike? Spindle is smaller than that of the Cannondale hollowtech stuff I pulled off.

New bottom bracket needed?

If so, can someone point me in the right direction to something that will last? Links very much appreciated!

Ps. I also bought a B tension spring and plan to install once it's delivered.
Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison
Mar 27, 21 23:05
Post #57 of 71 (1186 views)
This work?
https://www.backcountry.com/...Mfrgu-xoCL3oQAvD_BwE
Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Nelo
Mar 28, 21 0:42
Post #58 of 71 (1169 views)
DrAlexHarrison wrote:
How do I get a Shimano Ultegra crankset to work with this bike? Spindle is smaller than that of the Cannondale hollowtech stuff I pulled off.

New bottom bracket needed?

Soooo...you don't have the BB in your bike that you linked above in post 51 (Enduro Bearings TorqTite PF 386EVO to 24mm). What BB is currently in there? If it's a good one you could keep it and just use an adapter, something like:

https://wheelsmfg.com/...shimano-fsa-etc.html

They have slightly different versions of the above depending on what BB standard your bike has (BB30/PF30 vs. BB30a/PF30a)

I think you need to definitively determine:

1)What is the BB standard of your frame? Take a photo of the bike and the experts here can tell you. Measure the shell width (not counting any extra from the bottom bracket. Is it 68 or 73mm?

2)What BB is currently in the frame?

3)What route do you want to take to make the Shimano cranks fit? There should be a Wheels Mfg adapter kit that would work, for approx $40. The simple answer to all the above is if the measured shell width is 68mm, get the linked adapter above and if the measured shell width is 73mm get the BB30a/PF30a adapter kit(unless you already have some type of outboard bearing adapter bb...also measure the over bearing width). A new bottom bracket would be a bit more $
Last edited by: Nelo: Mar 28, 21 0:49
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [Nelo] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison
Mar 28, 21 9:19
Post #59 of 71 (1109 views)
Nelo wrote:
DrAlexHarrison wrote:
How do I get a Shimano Ultegra crankset to work with this bike? Spindle is smaller than that of the Cannondale hollowtech stuff I pulled off.

New bottom bracket needed?


Soooo...you don't have the BB in your bike that you linked above in post 51 (Enduro Bearings TorqTite PF 386EVO to 24mm). What BB is currently in there? If it's a good one you could keep it and just use an adapter, something like:

https://wheelsmfg.com/...shimano-fsa-etc.html

They have slightly different versions of the above depending on what BB standard your bike has (BB30/PF30 vs. BB30a/PF30a)

I think you need to definitively determine:

1)What is the BB standard of your frame? Take a photo of the bike and the experts here can tell you. Measure the shell width (not counting any extra from the bottom bracket. Is it 68 or 73mm?

2)What BB is currently in the frame?

3)What route do you want to take to make the Shimano cranks fit? There should be a Wheels Mfg adapter kit that would work, for approx $40. The simple answer to all the above is if the measured shell width is 68mm, get the linked adapter above and if the measured shell width is 73mm get the BB30a/PF30a adapter kit(unless you already have some type of outboard bearing adapter bb...also measure the over bearing width). A new bottom bracket would be a bit more $


Thank you very much for the detailed reply.

Apparently I did not have the BB I thought I did! Sorry for the rookie error there.
  1. Got the calipers out and the carbon shell is 73mm. I took the bottom bracket out to measure and clean.
  2. Enduro Bearings TorqTite BB30/PF30 68-73mm. This is the text on the bottom bracket.
  3. The chainring side bearings of the removed BB roll rough. I think I'll replace the bottom bracket. Can the bearings be easily swapped and purchased independently? (thinking about making this current BB a spare with some adapters on-hand.)

I purchased this Wheels Mfg BB last night. Does that work? (Shipped to Amazon locker so that if it does not work, per ST guidance, I can leave at locker and it will be automatically returned & refunded.)
Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube β†’ Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SBRcanuck
Mar 28, 21 11:31
Post #60 of 71 (1079 views)
Yes,that should work. You do technically need a bearing press to get one of the sides in.
I used the exact same one with a Felt IA frame with BB30 BB shell and they work great.
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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philg
Mar 28, 21 12:01
Post #61 of 71 (1064 views)
Note:
BB30 and PF30 are NOT the same thing.
Bearings will be the same, but bb30 the bearings are a direct fit in the frame; PF30 bearings are usually fit in a Delrin housing to make up for any manufacturing tolerences in a carbon bb shell.
As a result, theres a difference in the diameter of the shell aperture of about 2mm I think.

Despite it saying its bb30, I would be very surprised if it is. I'd be more inclined to believe its pf30.

If your bearings are already rough, don't bother getting new bearings and adaptors to fit, it will most likely end up creaking.
Get a decent pf30 to ht2 complete bb such as a cbear.

Edit- having done some digging, your bike should have a pf30a bb shell. It’s asymmetrical which is why it is wider than normal (bb30=68mm)
Last edited by: philg: Mar 28, 21 12:51
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [philg] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj
Mar 28, 21 13:16
Post #62 of 71 (1038 views)
Everything I see about that bike is the BB is a PF30
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Nelo
Mar 28, 21 14:14
Post #63 of 71 (1020 views)
As people are mentioning, there are some confusing BB standards being thrown around for Cannondales...BB30, BB30a, PF30, PF30a

With a shell width of 73mm you have narrowed it down to PF30a or BB30a.

What's the BB shell ID? 42mm = BB30a (or BB30 but you ruled that out). 46mm = PF30a (or PF30 but you ruled that out)

https://www.bicyclepartsdirect.com/bb30-vs-pf30/
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DrAlexHarrison
Mar 28, 21 14:17
Post #64 of 71 (1019 views)
SBRcanuck wrote:
Yes,that should work. You do technically need a bearing press to get one of the sides in.
I used the exact same one with a Felt IA frame with BB30 BB shell and they work great.

What's a bearing press, as it relates to bikes? I worked alongside a mechanic (learning for a day) while "we" installed the current BB, which he sourced for me (hence, I know nothing more than what's written on it, and what's discussed on this thread).

I don't recall a bearing press tool being used. Just a rubber mallet. (EDIT: nvm that was my wife's bike... though i was able to pull this BB out of my bike by hand, millimeter by millimeter, budging one side at a time with my fingers only. I suspect I could easily reinstall it with the same rubber mallet used on my wife's 2018 Cervelo s5)
Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube β†’ Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
Last edited by: DrAlexHarrison: Mar 28, 21 14:20
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SBRcanuck
Mar 28, 21 14:26
Post #65 of 71 (1015 views)
DrAlexHarrison wrote:
SBRcanuck wrote:
Yes,that should work. You do technically need a bearing press to get one of the sides in.
I used the exact same one with a Felt IA frame with BB30 BB shell and they work great.

What's a bearing press, as it relates to bikes? I worked alongside a mechanic (learning for a day) while "we" installed the current BB, which he sourced for me (hence, I know nothing more than what's written on it, and what's discussed on this thread).

I don't recall a bearing press tool being used. Just a rubber mallet. (EDIT: nvm that was my wife's bike... though i was able to pull this BB out of my bike by hand, millimeter by millimeter, budging one side at a time with my fingers only. I suspect I could easily reinstall it with the same rubber mallet used on my wife's 2018 Cervelo s5)


You might be able to get away without one, but here is a video from wheelsmfg showing the installation. Go to about the 25 second mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i66Nmo8Eyw

BTW - using a rubber mallet etc to install remove cups can result in them pushing in uneven at first. They may straighten once in, but you can cause some wear on the carbon BB shells doing that. Ask owners of Treks....
Last edited by: SBRcanuck: Mar 28, 21 14:29
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [Nelo] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison
Mar 28, 21 14:32
Post #66 of 71 (1012 views)
Nelo wrote:
As people are mentioning, there are some confusing BB standards being thrown around for Cannondales...BB30, BB30a, PF30, PF30a

With a shell width of 73mm you have narrowed it down to PF30a or BB30a.

What's the BB shell ID? 42mm = BB30a (or BB30 but you ruled that out). 46mm = PF30a (or PF30 but you ruled that out)

https://www.bicyclepartsdirect.com/bb30-vs-pf30/

Shell internal diameter is 46mm.

So I need PF30a, assuming you're correct....
  1. Which means this one I already bought will NOT work.... right??
  2. Do I need this one? If so, cool! I just bought that too.
  3. Does PF in PF30, stand for Press Fit?
  4. Am I going to need a special tool to install these BB's? If so, I would be so grateful for direct link from amazon to something that would work.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube β†’ Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison
Mar 28, 21 14:42
Post #67 of 71 (1007 views)
SBRcanuck wrote:
DrAlexHarrison wrote:
SBRcanuck wrote:
Yes,that should work. You do technically need a bearing press to get one of the sides in.
I used the exact same one with a Felt IA frame with BB30 BB shell and they work great.

What's a bearing press, as it relates to bikes? I worked alongside a mechanic (learning for a day) while "we" installed the current BB, which he sourced for me (hence, I know nothing more than what's written on it, and what's discussed on this thread).

I don't recall a bearing press tool being used. Just a rubber mallet. (EDIT: nvm that was my wife's bike... though i was able to pull this BB out of my bike by hand, millimeter by millimeter, budging one side at a time with my fingers only. I suspect I could easily reinstall it with the same rubber mallet used on my wife's 2018 Cervelo s5)


You might be able to get away without one, but here is a video from wheelsmfg showing the installation. Go to about the 25 second mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i66Nmo8Eyw

BTW - using a rubber mallet etc to install remove cups can result in them pushing in uneven at first. They may straighten once in, but you can cause some wear on the carbon BB shells doing that. Ask owners of Treks....

Very handy video. Thank you! Noted re: mallet.

Just purchased wheels mfg bearing press tool.
Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube β†’ Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison
Mar 28, 21 14:46
Post #68 of 71 (1005 views)
I also have this double-ended BB removal/install tool. Do I need ANYTHING else for this job?
Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube β†’ Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcanuck
Mar 28, 21 14:50
Post #69 of 71 (1001 views)
DrAlexHarrison wrote:
I also have this double-ended BB removal/install tool. Do I need ANYTHING else for this job?


I bought the same press, its really good.

That tool looks right, but you need two of them, one for each side. Look at 1:04 into the youtube video. He is using a torque tool on one side and a wrench like yours on the other, but you can just use two like you have and tighten it well.
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Nelo
Mar 28, 21 14:53
Post #70 of 71 (997 views)
DrAlexHarrison wrote:

Shell internal diameter is 46mm.

So I need PF30a, assuming you're correct....
Do I need this one?

I think you need this one:

https://wheelsmfg.com/...s-shimano-black.html
On Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/...ing-goods&sr=1-1

You might not need to press the drive side in (but I wouldn't use a mallet), but generally you press in the drive side then screw in the non-drive side. The Wheels Mfg drifts are really nice (you can buy two then use threaded rod from Home Depot, or just buy the more expensive kit with drifts/rod/handles. You'll also need the correct notched flat wrench.

https://www.amazon.com/...ing-goods&sr=1-2
https://www.amazon.com/...ing-goods&sr=1-3

Random side note...I bought the Wheels Mfg notched socket, but it doesn't fit any of the handful of Wheels Mfg BBs that I've put in since buying it...even though it is listed as being compatible...your mileage may vary....
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Re: Is the frame too flexible? Or is it the chainrings? Something else? I went over the bars. [Nelo] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison
Mar 28, 21 15:55
Post #71 of 71 (984 views)
Thank you!
Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube β†’ Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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