But now you know how to spell scenery properly. Isn't learning wonderful?

this will be interesting to see, but my guess is that by having a race and the best pro race in 2020 that race should do very well 2021. i for one certainly look especially at races that happened 2020 or made a big effort to host it.

Agree on German restrictions

covidvax.live - Worldwide

Is a "real time" page of where vaccines are being administered. You can index it on the 70% of population column. Germany aren't about to hit that target until September 2023! (Granted it will improve in due course, but it wont catch up that fast) For comparison UK is August 21 and the USA is October 21. Miles ahead!

Given what a disaster the EU have made of vaccine procurement, I wouldn't be looking at any events in Europe until 2022 at the earliest.

* * * * *

100K Spectators at Roth? Christ only knows where they are then! Granted that stadium at the finish line holds a good few thousand, and the locals are outside their homes supporting the riders, but I'd be amazed if it's more than 40-45K people total.

I've said this before, and everyone assumed I was trolling, but I'm no fan of Roth. Probably great for the Elites and FOPers. But slow people like me, not so much

As a first time (and never again) participant in 2018 it's the most dull run course I've ever run! Well over half on the bank of that featureless, sparsely attended canal! Aid stations that pack up at 8pm. (I didn't start until just before 9am due to so many waves. Then into the cold lonely forest to an out and back. The shuttle bus goes 1 way back to T1 From Roth. But you cant get on it to go into Roth! If you do have a car, you cant park it anywhere because 3500 athletes completely monopolise Roth and there's only a few car parks

The "team members" that I encountered, I would say just over half speak virtually no English (unforgiveable for a large international event) and whilst I was there post race they'd managed to lose 1 guys bike completely! English signage is virtually non existent! How can you come out the arena, not be given your medal because the volunteers are too busy have a fun old time. Then into the snacks zone and no English signs on the best way back to T2 (about 500m down the road, and in mine and a few others cases, have to cross a train line!)

Post race, we encountered a German lady who told us that this was the worst event she'd ever attended! So I don't think I'm alone in my critique. But of course because it gets the record times (bike and run both short) and the hype has been going for years it sells out so fast, which presumably to the people at Challenge it's a great event and everyone loves it and it can't possibly be improved.

The 70% figure. I don't necessarily agree that has to be reached..70% of the population is not 70% of the risk of hospitalisation or death. That gives way away more. Because vaccination of the oldest 30% + really vulnerable = 90-odd percent or risk reduction.

My main training buddy did Roth in 2019 and thought it about the slickest organised race he'd done.

Whilst English, I do find the "can't believe 7 billion can't speak English" approach somewhere between inconsiderate and ignorant. Go to a big race in the USA. Even Kona or Boston marathon or NY Marathon..how many helpers speak German or French or Spanish to accommodate the international field ? What a bunch of lousy lazy inconsiderate gits not learning F/De/Es.

Travel to Germany with a year's notice and not learn a few words to get by? How fecking lazy.

Volunteers are there of their own volition and giving their free time. And that's the thanks they get ?
We could ask for paid English speaking volunteers. Want to pay $5k entry instead?

I have nothing to add other than to say that Roth was one of the great experiences of my life and Clutch Cargo is the best handle ever.

I disagree.

This is certainly a contrarian POV, but I like that Ironman is doing everything they possible can to put on races and cancelling them last minute. I’m going to keep training either way (it’s a lifestyle not a bucket list item for me) and even if there is only a 1% chance they can pull off a July race like IMLP, I want them to keep trying.

Any takes on if the new date makes it more or less likely to use a wetsuit for the swim. While an early September day may be cooler than one in July, I was thinking the additional two months of summer heat might make the water a tad warmer than usual.

Holding the race at the end of Northern hemisphere summer will not make a big difference when it concerns wetsuits.


The swim is in a canal, with locks bringing in cooler upstream water. It is a huge regulator.

And in case it might be a hot summer, do not fear. The Roth organisation uses the same brand of thermometer as so many other organisers. It always dips below the max allowed temp.

In 2019, even with an upstream lock that was out of order until a few days before the race, testified by the swimming pool temps in the canal, AG race was wetsuit legal. You should have heard the sigh of relief going through the tent...

I agree, but it's become the defacto target for a lot of Governments worldwide. And those Governments are so terrified of being seen to do the wrong thing (which of course is worse than actually doing the wrong thing) that they are clinging to the numbers to give themselves deniability. I'd drop masks, social distancing and lockdown tomorrow if possible. But I've had confirmed covid with appropriate symptoms (10 days isolation/no excercise is horrible though!) and the older people in my life have received at least 1 dose, so I'm even less fazed about it that I was before I got it.


I can only fear where he's raced before! ;)

I certainly wouldn't do it again. YMMV




Nonsense. :-p

Firstly, Meine Deutsch ist einfach! :D And I'm just about capable of getting a Taxi zum flughafen bitte

Secondly, if you are from Mexico or Taiwan or Norway or Bulgaria. Chances are, you will have picked up English at school. You don't have to be fluent. But Roth is "allegedly" the "Home of Triathlon" according to their banner. (Which is horseshit imo!) So you should expect signage to be German and English to help. Go to the Berlin Hauptbahnof, the signs are bilingual! They realise that they have tourists coming so help the majority who will have English as their second language. And that's before we even consider Norway, Finland or Switzerland where English is effectively an official language.

If Roth was a National championship, then fair enough. But you cant invite 3500+ people from all over the world to your tiny town (which simply cannot handle that many people) and then say "well you should be able to speak German" My companion on the trip cant speak ANY German. And really struggled when I wasn't around. The taxi firm (and subsequent driver) I ordered at near midnight could speak English to a "we'll send you a car" level

FWIW, I raced in 2019. While I had no major issues (despite speaking no German), I did find the whole experience logistically challenging. If you get a homestay in Roth or Hipolstein (pros or old hands), then you're likely ok. But if like the rest of us, you have to stay further away, it does make life more complicated.

Having said that, would I go back - 100% yes.

---

My race site: https://racesandplaces.wixsite.com/racesandplaces

I am really sorry that your experience in Roth did not live up to what others have experienced.

I first did the race in 1989, and 2018, when you were there, was my eighth time. 2020 was supposed to be my ninth on my 60th birthday, but of course that has gotten postponed.

As far as spectators on the course, there are well, well over 100,000 spectators on the course. Probably closer to 300,000. Solar alone has 50,000.

The first time I went in 1989 I did not speak a single word of German, and my homestay family did not speak a single word of English. Fabulous experience with no problems whatsoever :-).

Of course, I responded to some of your posts in other threads regarding this race. Many of the things you criticize either simply are not true, or you didn’t take time to figure them out. As I have said every time, I am truly sorry that you did not enjoy a better experience.

Now, is Roth everyone’s cup of tea? Of course not. However, for the largest long-distance field in the sport and being an independent race to routinely fill up in less than a minute, I’d say there are a few fans out there :-).

When 2020 had to be canceled I also contributed to their solidarity fund which guarantees me two additional starts over the next 10 years. I can’t wait to race it when I am 70, and beyond!

I wish you the best in finding a race you truly love like I have been able to love the people and the race in Roth! Of course, I have loved the people, the course, and the race in many, many venues around the country and around the world!

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

I knew you'd chime in eventually David. Like a "White Knight" you simply must defend Challenge's honour at all costs. It's never the race or organisers fault is it. It must be down to people who don't think it's amazing that are the fault. With respect, I also don't require you to apologise, or even worry about my comments, unless you are part of the organisation team tbh. FWIW I did fill in the post race questionaire and got no response even of receiving it, much less acknowledging they could improve things. So maybe I am just wrong and know nothing.

888.jpg (500×534) (kym-cdn.com)


The fact that people buy into the Hype (as I did) and it sells out quick, is not proof of a great event, it's a triumph of marketing.

For those who haven't been, the link below shows where you spend well over half your marathon. And tbh that pic could have been taken on race day, since its representative of the number of spectators you'll see once the Elites have gone through and the aid stations have packed up less than 12 hours after you started. Maybe that's why they allow MP3 players on the run...

Industriegebiet Lände Roth - Google Maps

If you think that there is 50K people on Solar Hill, then you have no idea what 50K people look like! For reference, the stadium at the end, holds 10K or so. It's well under half of that at Solar Hill. And Solar does represent the most populated part of the course. People sitting outside their homes are of course appreciated, but once you get out of the towns there's not so many people out. Though the climb at Greding does also get a lot of spectators


I will echo the statement above by Fareastman though. The logistical difficulties with the place are the biggest issue they have. Plus the frankly awful run course.

Do I wish them to fail financially, of course not, but from my limited experience of talking to others who have been there. The problems have been known about for years, and seemingly never fully addressed. Very few people I've conversed with have been as universal of their praise as yourself.

Again, I am truly sorry, and think it is a bit sad, that you did not enjoy a race that has been ranked one of the best and most iconic races in the world for decades. That’s not me, that’s consistent across the sport, across continents, and many different nationalities. I tend to agree. I understand that you don’t. However, I think you could possibly be the outlier :-)

You will recall that you started complaining about the race after the registration process. You have continually not liked that they do not speak or translate English to your satisfaction. My memory probably fades since it was almost 3 years ago, but I offered to help you and I don’t believe you ever took me up on it. You complained that you couldn’t find registration because the wonderful expo area it was too big. I have never heard that complaint before.

I believe you complained about the translation of the pre-race instructions. At one point I recall that you didn’t like a regulation of the DTU, but instead wanted a USA triathlon rule. I guess that corresponds to wanting people in a foreign country to speak your language. If that is your expectation, certainly you will be disappointed.

Sure there are logistic challenges for a race like this. The same thing applies to the Boston marathon, New York City Marathon, Kona, and most other iconic events. And each of them have their own little nuances which becomes easier once you catch on to them.

I’m really wondering what other iconic races you have done that you have liked. What are big triathlon races have you done? Heaven forbid that you ever race Kona! The natural energy lab is iconic and I love it, but it is far more stark and fewer spectators than the canal in Roth. There are also probably about 1/10 of the spectators. Fortunately, I have had the opportunity to race many of the iconic races around the country and around the world. Roth has to be either near or at the top.

I am probably a “white night“ for all good races, race communities, race directors, volunteers, and others who try very hard to enhance our sport. I’ll plead guilty to that.

Many of your complaints of Roth simply strain reason and credibility.

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

As stated, I did find the logistics challenging, but that wouldn't stop me going back. I also think I'd enjoy it more if I did it again, knowing my way around and soaking in more of the atmosphere instead of worrying so much.

The highlight of the race itself would be the bike course - great to ride through those Bavarian towns and villages. Granted, the run along the canal was not too inspiring, but running through Roth was pretty awesome and the finish was great.

For me and I suspect many others, whilst is hard to get into, it's not 'Kona-level hard'. So for me, it was my Kona - taking part in a world-renowned race with its reputation and history.

---

My race site: https://racesandplaces.wixsite.com/racesandplaces

Quite frankly, I am now just going to assume that you are paid by Challenge. And simply discount your opinions as heavily biased. I would advise others to do the same!

Having run the NYC Marathon, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Your ridiculous assertion that big events always have logistical problems is simply not true. As are your rambling about DTU rules. FWIW Germany is actually the country I've spent the most time in outside of my native UK. Indeed my first Marathon was Berlin. (Another big event run incredibly smoothly) I've actually worked for a German multi-national company for years. And half my emails come in German and English, so this is not about some weird "foreigners must speak English" rant. I'm well aware of German nuances

You are right! I am “paid” by Challenge - The priceless experience of being in a race, community, and experience as good as there is in the Triathlon world! I can’t wait to “collect” again this year.

Wishing you the best!

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Just replying to support david. I think the outlier here is definitely race1. The only thing that makes some sense is thinking the run course is boring, and possibly starting very late misses out on a part of the crowd that eventually moves to Roth instead of the spots on the bike course. Never noticed any difficulties figuring out logistics even staying outside of Roth. Everything is in English on the website, tons of info is given at the expo (also in English). I am also not paid by any organisation. Saying that about someone who just has a different experience is weird. As if other people can't possibly be right about something.

Roth fan here also. The first two times I did it I started in a later wave and saw in 06 Macca and Faris out of the water before I even got in, and then likewise Ralert in 11. In 16, as an old guy I was 7 seconds behind Frodo at the start and 7 hours at the finish. Each time I had a fun outstanding experience before, during and after the race. The organization and orientation was excellent. I did get to experience Solar Berg much louder in 16 with the earlier start. I wish I could have made it last year, having registered, but now will see what happens with my two options to do so in the coming years. I would highly recommend the race to any one.

Agreed that Roth logistics are a wee bit challenging, but the biggest inconvenience was finding parking spots and having to walk a bit.

I did IM Regensburg back in the day and became great friends with our homestay there so they invited us to stay with them if we wanted to do Roth, so we did.
Thankfully, being able to do 160-180kmh on the autobahn made the 120km (one way) trips to the race site not so bad, lol.

I raced Roth in 2019.

I signed up late (ie after the onlne craze) as the organizer posted that some people had not finalized their entries and first few to email would get in. Lucky me. I managed to read the english tweet from the race organizer... so no langauge barrier there.... no issues with the race communcation, was

So months after most/all had organized sourced places to stay (and with less prep time) I found a great place to stay in Hipolstein via airbnb, we're talking our own house, great place 200 meters from the train station. so finding a place... easy

flights to/from munich from London.. easy
car rental... easy
driving in Germany... awesome

using train to get to/from Roth for registration and fair.. crazy easy, no issues with language or reading signage, plus you just follow people around... and its pretty hard to miss the huge ass tent with big flags

Race day logistics also super great, of all the places I've raced my wife enjoyed Roth towards, if not at, the top. She was able to get some great runs in on the trails in the area, easy to get around, socialize with other spectators. After the race, drove the car into Roth, found a spot, collected bike and hung out for the party and fireworks. all. so. easy. and fun

Swim course.. canal, spectators along the way, was nice to have that engagement
Bike course, great mix of open rolling landscape, going through the towns, spectators and of course Solar Berg, all great fun. sure, probably not 50k on that hill but I'm not counting specators for a refund. It was fucking cool and a great experience.
Run - sure, canal is 'less than ideal' but common its a marathon and franakly i was so much happier to have the run through the city at the end with the energy and people pushing you along when you're drained. plus its a marathon... it cant all be the last 400m of boston marathon on Boylston....

my only (marginal) gripe was the post race food. for the last 5 miles of the run I wanted a bratwurst and beer.. crazy,crazy bad. When I didnt see that at the finish I was dissapointed.... but i just walked out to the fair and got one. Solved

our entire time there I had zero language issues. sure I tried some of my broken German (Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch) to 'be a good sport' but english always worked (and all my wife had). We both had a great time at the fair/activities goin on in Roth during the event, just was a really nice time.

While I can imagine someone might not be as 'easy going' as I am I really cant imagine your experience.... at all.

I was/am so glad that I had the chance to race there and someday would like to again.

---

________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg