If I were a betting man, and at times I am, in fact this would be one of those times, I'd bet that you could contact a coach who would design an X # of weeks program of intervals to help you achieve your goals.

While not being coached and have that day to day looking over & changing things, having someone lay out a plan for you would put you on the pathway towards success.

I know a guy.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

So I was in the same boat as you, knew enough to get dangerous and signed up for trainerroad thinking it would have some wealth of knowledge that I didn't have.

The thing is...it really didn't. If you you read anything online about training you'll see the trainerroad stuff follows pretty conventional knowledge that's widely accessible and after a month I noticed I was basically doing the same workouts with slight power and cadence variations. This isn't a bad thing per say...it's just that's what training really is!

So I'd argue that there's no "secret" sauce to training that's so beyond comprehension. It's about consistency and gradual gains over time. If you feel like you need some app to do that for you, go for it! But honestly you can identify the area that you want to improve, look up some relevant workouts, and then do those consistently with gradual increases in duration or intensity, and you're literally doing the same thing that trainerroad is.

My money is on Mont Gosford.

I signed up for Xert, imported data, etc. Unfortunately, my FTP dropped by about 20 watts (vs the Zwift ramp test).

I do think the new number is a lot more accurate though.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Xert + Zwift is a pretty great combo. You can:

1. Use the Xert app to control trainer while still riding in Zwift (necessary for SMART workouts if you want to do these) and do a suggested workout
2. Upload a Xert workout to Zwift and do a workout there
3. Look at the suggested workouts and get a feel for what sort of route to do (and how) if you don't want to do a workout
4. Look at suggested workouts and then see what group rides/races fit the bill or how to do them
5. Look at the interval targets to figure out what might be a good course (example, do Surrey Hills with the KOMs at the interval target; or do Richmond Cobble Climb repeats at the interval targets - will change where you are in progression)

It's enough options to keep it fresh and interesting, and can mix erg mode, slope mode and (terrain mode?), good for the legs

Guess again. I do like that workout though.

One is a vo2 workout the other is a tempo/threshold workout, that I ripped and redid from an existing workout on TR. made it 5 min longer than the original if that helps.

nice riding with you a bit on zwift. I'm going to start doing a meet up every Saturday morning.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

That’s funny, it was the opposite for me, xert was like +15 watt above on the ramp test. And I was like no way Xert is right... but it was.
Xert is define by defaut with FTP decay, so if you ramp test was done some weeks ago it could explain that. I let this settings as it forces you every two or three weeks to achieve an effort to exhaustion.

Well, I’m hopping on to redo the Zwift ramp test now, so it will be interesting to see how different the numbers are once that’s done.

For the last 4 weeks I’ve been doing almost exclusively workouts that are pegged to a 274w FTP, and Xert says my FTP is 269 right now, so that could be it there. Although if I go back, it says my FTP was 250 the day after I tested at the 274 number. So, who knows???

I do know that when I tested that 274 number, there was no way I could hold that for anywhere close to an hour. Now, I think I could.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I was exclusively TR for years, then joined Zwift last May and have been doing the TR/Zwift combo, but Xert sounds pretty cool.

Is it really only possible to sync from Garmin Connect and Strava? I don't use either, so everything might have to be a manual upload plus a bulk export and upload from Training Peaks for past history. I like that it can push workouts to Zwift though.


Should've been pink, based on your comments in the linked thread. Now I'm actually curious about which workouts they are though...

Yes I think it's only Garmin Connect and Strava. Also, I don't think there is an auto workout export to Zwift - I download the zwift workout and drop it into my workouts folder.

Yeah, I was looking at that today.

looks like you can do that, or run zwift in parallel with the xert remote monitor which is in turn pulling data from the Xert app (which runs on your iOS/Android/Garmin Edge IQ device) So you'd probably have to run Zwift off an ANT+ connection, unless your device can run ANT+. Mine can't, I'm on an iPhone and my Garmin is a 910XT so no ConnectIQ apps.

Running them in parallel should let you run the Xert Smart workouts, which don't have fixed interval / recovery times. They're dynamic based on what you do in the workout itself.

As an aside, just finished the ramp test on Zwift, Underwhelmed with my results, FTP went up by only 7 watts, not much considering it's supposed to be a booster and I'm not in great shape coming into it. I should be getting easy gains. I was expecting a bit more. Xert clearly didn't, FTP was unchanged before and after the test.

Update: I jumped into a Zwift race a little while after the test, 30kms on the flat route. (Placed 2nd in the C’s and won the “bunch” sprint, woot!!! ) Xert now says my FTP went up 11w to 279, just 2w less than the Zwift ramp test. So maybe the ramp test is pretty accurate after all?

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Depends on the ramps. I can easily design 3 ramps tests that will take the same amount of time and you'll end up with 3 different FTP #s.

Longer ramps typically yield lower numbers.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Sure, I’m just saying that in my particular case, the ramp test aligns very well with my FTP as calculated by a completely different protocol. Now, they could both be “wrong”, but given that my FTP came out as just a little bit above my NP for a rather spiky Zwift race, I’d say that is close enough to use in training.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

No in fact we chat on either Facebook or discord while we do workout.
I am using a tablet so I do not believe that I can do this, it is only for PC
In fact we often do TR and zwift at the same time, TR control home trainer and zwift is just for entertainment with the stay together option!
We found that doing same workout at the same time is good for motivation since we all need to push at same time and relax together!

nice efforts! can you post the xert ride graphs from ramp test and the zwift race? also, did xert give you a breakthrough ride prior to the ramp test and how would you say that went?

edit: my thoughts 2 years ago on xert - still pretty accurate, and with ramp test evaluations too:

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6927234#p6927234

so if you “only” got 7 watts more on ramp maybe xert is agreeing that you underperformed?

as has been said “all models are wrong. some models are useful.”

I had a breakthrough ride on Wednesday last week https://www.xertonline.com/...ies/7bimbanzcr98j62d that one went really well, 10 min max power at the end of the ride.

Saturday Ramp test: https://www.xertonline.com/...ies/qfy7v4n4qoeshte6 I did think going into it that my legs didn't feel "right", I think I did underperform

Race following the ramp test. https://www.xertonline.com/...ies/1m0inigfy3nywy1n I wanted to drop out after about 10 mins, convinced myself to just finish the first lap (of 3). Then just make it to 20 mins. then 25. Then it was so close to the finish might as well continue on....

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Nice - I enjoy seeing the different ways you can hit a breakthrough - a punch at the end of a 10 minute effort or a sprint after drawing down MPA during a race.

Tough thing about a breakthrough on ramp test is you are NOT supposed to stand/surge at the end, when xert really needs this (5 seconds above MPA for a breakthrough).

I don't get bored easily and look at indoor cycling as a "get shit done" thing and not a "let's have fun" thing.
I get TrainerRoad loaded on the tablet (Samsung, ANT+ connection out of the box), smartphone blasting Children of Bodom or Pantera if I'm doing intervals or playing a podcast if not.
Off the bike, check workout upload, shower.

If I want fun and scenery I go out.

I've Tried TR for a bit (using free trial) and then proceeded to use the monthly plan (This was way before I got myself a smart trainer, so the VirtualPower stuffs was a bit iffy and thus I didn't quite get the best out of it)

Then, I started Zwift (this was during the lockdown) and really enjoyed it. (You know - all the pain and suffering and the testosterone laden dudes chasing the next rabbit). I did this for about 2 months then lockdown eased. (funny thing, I'm back in lockdown now :-( ) And I wasn't quite able to convince myself to keep paying for TR nor Zwift. (If anything, I would have paid for Zwift but w/ the price increase and the dismal exchange rate for me, it didn't fit)

So, now I'm almost exclusively using this https://apps.apple.com/...raining/id1541280053 which does what I want. It's no zwift but it also just works w/o needing a login or signup. There's about 100 different workouts pre-loaded in as well as some real roads (it's called slope mode in the app).

Yeah, I like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxPoC9jM4FY

TR and zwift are good training tools but they don´t make good training plans. I use 2PEAK to for my training plan and workouts can be exported to zwift when I train indoors.
Nike vaporfly is a great shoe but I wouldn´t use it cycling. Point is, use things for what they are made for. Even though these platforms offer training plans in my opinion they are a good tool to make training more fun but they are not made for developing a training plan. Developers have enough to focus on making such a cool game experience they aren´t focusing on science backed training

I do Zwift plus Trainingpeaks.

I run my own plans/workout scheduling.

Zwift plans and some individual workouts just plain suck. Poorly written. But, the platform for keeping up volume when outdoors can't is great.

I don't think anybody really "needs" a bunch of special workouts some site wrote. The originals are often best and easy to write in Zwift or Trainingpeaks and push down.

If you NEED to follow plans, yeah, maybe TR has some.......but I'd rather pay a coach OR pay for plans a la carte from TP than commit to needing a crappy ERG workout system like TR and still probably need TP to go with it.

Just IMO.......if doubling up.......go Zwift and Trainingpeaks.

I did zwift and training peaks with the a la carte plans but it didn´t work as well for me as 2PEAK training plans because the 2PEAK plan adapts when I miss a session because I was busy with work, or I go a little to hard flexing on a group ride day, etc.

I agree the best option is to pay a coach that will give you constant feedback and support you having a plan that is catered to your specific goals and ability. But this is a little out of my price range. The zwift and training road plans are garbage as you mention. So I am left with trying to figure it all out alone or a cheaper online plan like training peaks or 2PEAK

I found the 2PEAK plan is better than training peaks because it is more dynamic in that it is set up for the races in my season and when I am more or less recovered I note that in the plan, recalculate and get appropriate workouts. Same price as training peaks and in my opinion better