I feel like you are baiting this answer, given the obviousness, but here we go ;)

I use both. Use each tool for what it's good at:

TR: Structured training with purpose built plans, and a massive catalog of specific workouts
Zwift: Visual stimuli and "somewhat realistic" distance tracking based on their physics engine

I run TR on my iPhone to control the trainer, and Zwift on the AppleTV for all the above. Even though I am in ERG mode most of the time I still enjoy watching the scenery roll by (with music of course - from the iPhone), and during hard intervals passing people is fun and motivating even though I'm not specifically "racing" them.

Not really. I’m kind of looking for both, in one app, and I really don’t want to be dealing with 2 subscriptions. I can use that extra $150-200 per year on something else (my gear is mostly ancient, trying to have good nutrition, etc)

I’m hoping that Suf bridges that gap, but I’m not sure yet.

Tomorrow iI’m repeating the Zwift ramp test from the 4 week FTP booster (it’s actually gone really well, set a new PB on my mostly z2 ride today, three in a couple of sprints at the end and my 1 and 5 sec power went up by about 80w in 4 weeks.). Then I’ll jump into one of the suf plans for at least the 14day trial.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I would prioritize what is most important and work backwards from there. If workout quality/structure is most important and you feel TR does a great job I'd stick with that and watch YouTube cycling videos for visual entertainment (or music, or whatever).

Interested to see what other people suggest from their experience, I've been happy with that pairing and haven't explored much beyond to be fair. They seem to be "best of breed" in their respective categories, and I feel I get value from both and can live with the double sub.

This is also what I do.

I toyed with importing my own workouts via trainingpeaks for a bit, but in all honesty, it's just so much easier to go through trainerroad.

Plus, I can do some zwift racing or social rides with buddies through zwift too, so that's fun.

Eventually it was a no brainer. The annual cost of the extra membership, when I look at the little bit I had to do to make up the cost, was a no brainer for me too.

There isn't really a best of both worlds, they're both great, so many people use both.

Now if zwift got their shit together on the training platform side of things, they could really dominate, but they seem to be doing well enough to not care that much about it, lol

I tried both and I think Zwift is the way to go.

There's really nothing "special" about Trainerroad. After a while I realized each training plan was basically the same workouts over and over again with slight variations to them. Now obviously that's what structured training is all about, consistency and a gradual increase in intensity over a specified time, but to me there was nothing really "unique" or special that trainerroad provides outside of that.

What I've found works best in Zwift is just making your own workouts and repeating them consistently with a gradual increase in intensity, duration, etc. as appropriate. Spend a couple of hours and make10-15 base workouts, map out a simple schedule for yourself to follow those workouts and you basically have what trainerroad offers.

The fact that you can race in Zwift, do some challenging courses & climbs, etc. gives you plenty of variety if you so need it.

In short...you can get the trainerroad experience in Zwift. You can't get the Zwift experience in trainerroad. Again, trainerroad is literally just a bunch of premade workouts and training plans put on a calendar for you to ride each day...not that special.

Sufferfest is the answer. Great structured training with fun videos which I find very engaging.

I’ve stopped my Zwift subscription because of the boredom factor. Racing is fun but workouts are rubbish.

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I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert

Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes

Hi,

I have used all 3 and these are my thoughts:
1. if you want the best of both worlds use SUF (the Sufferfest) you get the plan and videos (some people don't like them but I found them entertaining but to each his or her own)
2. if you want a great training program for cycling TR is great, I made huge improvements with it, some say its old school but I improved with it so no complaints from me (my first coach recommended it and I was very happy)
3. if you export workouts to Zwift (maybe you have a coach) then Zwift is fun


Right now I am using Tri2Peak (they are not a sponsor...I am not good enough to have any) but it gives me the coaching function (using AI) and the workouts (both running and biking) can be exported to Zwift.

I hope that helps.

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

I get my "entertainment " by watching TV or listening to the stereo or both while using TR.
Sometimes i plug my laptop into my TV and watch it on there while TR is minimized along the top or bottom of the screen. I have yet to try zwift and catch up on my recorded TV while using TR.

Have you investigated the different ways to bring workouts and plans into Zwift? I believe that there are some free Zwift workouts from independent sources on the internet. Also, you could shop around some plans on TrainingPeaks and reuse them as needed. It would be pay as needed vs the subscription model clicking away every month.

I love trainer road program and I increased my FTP from 190 to 230 in two years (i am 63 and a poor cyclist) but I agree it is not fun!
What I do is sometimes doing zwift/trainer road at the same time, otherwise Netflix/Trainer road and try to connect as much as possible with friends to do TR program together while chating on discord.
We are few friends to follow the same program on TR (currently TR 1/2 IM base) and it is motivation to do the same program together!
I really like the structure and the variety of WO within TR, I tried a bit Zwift program but it was not working for me, seems all over the place.

When you say you're doing the Trainerroad program together with friends, are you using the TR Group workouts function? That seems like it would be a really cool feature, but I haven't tried it yet.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I haven’t ventured into the workouts on zwift, but i have found that the group workouts can be clicked on and the power output will be tailored to your current ftp. For example, at 10:20 eastern time this morning, there is a 52 minute group workout called “Anaerobic Capacity into VO2”. If you open the workout, you will see the various intervals pictorially represented. Clicking on that image will bring up the various wattages based on your ftp for the workout.

Since you’re old school, you could simply write them down and follow it on your own time. Me, I build it into my TP library and use it any time I wish.

I was in the same boat 2 months ago: 4 years of Zwift, tried TR for couple months, came back to zwift as it’s more fun. I import or create my own workout but always hit the same FTP ceiling @4w/kg all those years. (Like an average trained guy I assume)
Finally decide to break this limit and after research found that Xert could be the right choice for me:
- free trial, less expensive than TR
- adaptive workout and flexible (you can still race on zwift and it take efforts into account for the next day). And if you’re feeling like not training today, it will adapt your next workout.
- define your own goal and date, with building phase, peak phase, etc like every training plan
- Ftp (and all your power curve) is calculated on the fly. No need to do power ramp or 20min effort every month, just do a race in zwift and that’s it. (And it’s wayyyy more acurrate)
- Could give you « live » during a race the power in tank you have for the finish sprint

So after two month with xert, I just reach more than 4,5w/kg... and seems to keep going up. I’m impressed by their algorithms and don’t mind paying xert + zwift as it works for me ;)

I've been using Rouvy for the last couple years along with trainerroad for the plans. Got rid of trainerroad last year and just use Rouvy now. It has structured workouts as well as virtual courses and epic climbs you can ride. Only downside to Rouvy only is you need to find a structured plan elseware and adopt their workouts to your goals.
I tried zwift but I feel like you get too wrapped up in racing and group rides. For me thats not what structured training is about. I didn't really improve anything. Just my 2c.

Thanks! I forgot about xert, I might give them a try as well. Just browsing through it, and it looks like Xert + Zwift might be the bees knees for me. 30 day trial is awesome too, that will give me plenty of time to figure out if it works for me or not.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Zwift, its a no brainer. There's nothing it can't do which TR and Sufferfest can... the only thing better on TR/SF are its ready built training plans, but if you build your own suite of custom workouts then that turns Zwift into the same training platform, with the added benefits of better graphics, interactive free rides with loads of routes, races, games and challenges etc.

Custom workouts are easy to build and can be put into folders to organise, ive got around 200 in my files split into various sub-sections i.e. aerobic endurance, tempo, threshold, Vo2 etc. and thats all you ever need. Can customise your training plan to exactly how you want it when you want it, throw a race in for run, do a group ride with mates on the weekends etc.

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@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068

Creating our own workout, or import it from other platform (TR, today’s plan, xert, ...) and executing it is one thing, but what I learnt from Xert (by uploading all my cycling activities) is that I was always getting “overtrained”... and that’s probably why I wasn’t improving.
God if I knew this tools before, I wouldn’t have lost so many precious hour on the bike :D

That's your own fault though, nothing to do with those programs lol.

I'm sure 99% of everyone here will also use strava/garmin/training peaks etc to also monitor their training loads, fatigue etc.

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@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068

My issue with creating custom workouts is that it’s fine, I guess, but I don’t really have the experience with structured training on the bike to know what workouts to build, where to put them, etc. I’m willing to pay $99 -200 per year to Xert, Zwift, TrainerRoad, etc for that knowledge. I like the concept of Xert, since it appears that it takes into account both your structured training and unstructured riding time in planning your program. That seems like it could be a winner to me, particularly if I can just overlay Xert on top of Zwift.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Exact, but it’s another subscription to pay. (Zwift or garmin connect doesn’t give you that for the moment).
So i’m not sure 99% of people are using this data.

I didnt mean using the paid for features... simply to plan and log/monitor their training. You shouldn't need a program to tell you when you are tired, they are basically just a general indicator anyway... listen to your body and adjust the training plan as necessary to you.

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@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068

Curious - which TR plan do you like so much? You know my stance on TR having used it a fair amount...

Once easy way to do it is to keep Zwift, and just manually enter custom workouts in Zwift. Amazingly, it's very easy to do, takes less than a few minutes to enter even complicated ones once you know what you are doing (it's very obvious).

A book plan is a one-time $15-25, and then you can either do the workouts on Zwift on your own or use the workout creator to do them if you want that much granularity. (I've made a few custom workouts, but don't use them much - mainly for the Z4-5 stuff where I really want to keep the near-max intensity without interruption.)

Why don't you just write your own workouts to do what you need to do on whatever platform you choose? Why should the platform solve a problem you can easily solve no matter what platform you're on?

Just make you own workouts & do them on the free ride 60/90120. I did that and/or created workouts and only published them for my athletes. (There are 2 on TR that I wrote and published at large). 100 Bonus points if you can find them!

For example you could do 20 min warm up, 20min @ threshold 20 min cool down for a threshold workout all on Freeride 60.

On zwift now and I just do the work I need to do when I need to do it and ride easy the rest of the time.

That seems a lot easier than sorting through 100 workouts, of which 95 are poorly written imo, to find the 5 that are written how I think workouts should be written.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I'm not knowledgeable enough to write my own workouts, I am slowly learning but I'm in the area of "I know just enough to be dangerous".

I'd rather be doing something that's been designed by someone who knows what they are talking about. A Coach would be ideal, but I don't have the $$$ for that.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly