Generally speaking, after watching the IOC and WADA allow "elite athlete from Russia" allowed to compete in the Olympics just without the flag and also CAS making the penalty even less...sometimes I don't understand the purpose of those bodies. But that's off topic.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I absolutely understand how big an undertaking this would be and I don't really care. WTC is a billion dollar company and this is simply an organizational and logistical problem. It's not rocket science.

If someone qualifies for Kona they need to be tested and then be placed in the testing pool. If you charged them and said their entry was conditional upon accepting the testing most would not bat an eye.

At Kona every one on an AG podium should be tested. Heck, test the top-15 in case some wash out, which they will.

I think something like this needs to be done so WTC can see the extent of the problem.

One of the things I'd like to point out in all of this....it was earlier suggested IM doesn't care or do a good job at this. You know who also doens't care about this- us. No one really cares if it actually happens or not, we'd like it to, but then we just shrug our shoulders and fill their pockets with our money when it doesnt. Athletes will register for their races, and us coaches will coach them for IM events. So like IM in the end no one really likely cares- or enough to do anything about it.


So you think it should happen, the question then becomes what you going to do based on their response? Never talk IM, never race an IM, never watch the world champ's, etc. That's how you go after a "billion" dollar company. You hit them with mass exodus of entries, until you the customer get what you think is fair. But let's be real- just like IM won't do much w/ AG doping, neither will us the athletes either.

That's why I've sorta resigned myself to not expecting much with AG testing. Hell I've been on the day 1 bandwagon that I find AG testing pointless because it's just too vast. I've been more in favor of changing the classifications to allow "racing" group who gets tested and the "fun" group who's not bound by some WADA standard that 90% of the masses doens't even know it has to follow.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Is ironman a billion dollar company? It was sold for $730 million earlier this year, and it certainly didn't gain any value this year. Not really sure why you all think they have unlimited funds available.

So some people qualify for Kona over a year out. How do you suggest testing them? Every urine test at a WADA certified lab is about $600 at "scale" so something like you need to order 100 or so to get there. So are we testing them once? Or Twice?

Let's say WTC put 3 tests on that. That you had to pay for. That's $1800. That's gonna be a no from their customer base.

I guess I want to know generally. Does Challenge care about AG Doping? I would say they're probably in the same boat as WTC when it comes to frequency of tests their amateur athlete population gets.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I guess I want to know generally. Does Challenge care about AG Doping? I would say they're probably in the same boat as WTC when it comes to frequency of tests their amateur athlete population gets.

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No private race organization or national governing body "cares" about AG doping. It's a lip service in order to show they are doing something, but again what in the hell is "caring"? What is the standard to show they care? Is it every AG winner at any race tested? Is it only championship event AG winners tested? Is it only IM because they are the big bad bully and all the small scale race organizations don't have to test, and can then just blame USAT?

I'm actually pretty content with the testing they are even doing now- with regards to what seems to be good target testing and then the occasional race testing. I just live in the real world and recognize that money cant be sucked from every schmuck dentist out there, no matter how badly he wants to give us his money. And so at some point, how's the program going to be paid for? How's the program going to be detailed to make it cheaper? And if I give you said feedback on that detail and your response is disappointment on the pushback...it's on you to showcase how it's going to be done. Stop theorizing it and make it happen.....that is if you care enough about it.

Peace

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

As a middle or back of the pack AG I agree with B-Doughtie on this one. I am part of the "Fun" group and I have no idea what the WADA standard's are. I care that people are doping but at the end of the Day it doesn't effect me much. I am amazed at how much energy, time and money are invested into Getting a podium spot or in getting to Kona and I have a lot of respect for those individuals. But I am disheartened and sad when people cheat to get there.

This is such a unique sport where I share the same course on occasion with Pros and Elite amateurs. I am in awe when you all fly by me going 25mph plus for 112 miles.

I am glad that there is some testing. I am happy when I see the bike course monitored for drafting violations ( I was once force into a ditch during a Half IM by a pace line that crashed while passing me) but do I want to pay for more testing or more motorcycles on the course? No, I do not. But I will if that would make a difference. But I doubt that more testing will make any difference.

Not for the middle of the pack!

WADA standards for labs require security of the sample and tons of stuff that goes into that with the collecting agency etc. But the lab has to be able to detect down to the picogram. To give you an idea of how small that is: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/picogram.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

WADA certified lab...

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I'll be honest, I previously wrote a post about how IM could do their anti-doping program differently on a thread somewhere last year. You have a variety of drugs that pop hot on instant tests if you wanted to do it that way. Or you could go to a reputable but non-WADA lab which again would drive down the costs. But Ironman currently is a WADA signatory and they'd have to make an agreement with WADA in regards to amateur anti-doping testing.

I think the idea of collecting 10% of the field's samples and only testing 20% of those would be an interesting path to start down. Your chain of custody would need to be TIGHT AF, but you know if collect 200 samples at Check In that provides a greater deterrent. Again, that's something they'd have to negotiate.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Silly but honest question
Does TRT recommended by a legit doctor considered doping?

Another idea is to let athletes test each other. Let the market decide... I think this is a Andy Froncioni or Uli Flume idea

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

What do you mean?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

100% illegal as it should be. You need TRT, fine, but you can't race.

Pure Gold Dan, thanks for the Laugh and I agree 100%. As the timing company of basically most major Triathlon in North America we have only seen drug testing at Ironman events..... most other events simply don't have the budget to do so. I am sure there is also a procedure to follow to report someone doping, maybe we can look into that further.

This is definitely not 100% true. There are people with TUEs for TRT out there. However, getting one of those is uh, well your balls probably needed to stop producing any test whatsoever in order to get a TUE for TRT. They do exist. But the general TRT for most people that get it are like guys producing in the 400 range (which is still in the normal range for these older men that get TRT). Additionally for your balls basically being toast, I'm gonna guess that the dosage is much smaller than the standard dosage that men get prescribed.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I stand corrected then. My understanding was that testosterone was one of those things you couldn't get a TUE for no matter what.

I would love to see testing for all KQs, but I've never seen a plan that could do that cost effectively. I am in the 55-59 AG and am generally on the bubble for spots...not good enough to be top five, but generally in the 5th-10th range.

Even though I'm from Scottsdale, I don't dope, despite the stereotype. I'm in the minority here, but I'm just not convinced it would make that much difference anyway. They guys that beat me are leaner and put in more hours (I think).

I've been racing about 15lbs heavier than I should and only do about 10-15 hours of training per week. I'm in the restaurant business and don't have much discipline when it comes to food, I think I could be top five if I could keep my fork out of my mouth and put in five more hours of training per week.

I'm going to focus on the things I can control and other people doping isn't one of those things. If the guys beating me are doping, they better be ready to be very embarrassed when they get beat by a big fat guy.

OK... So????? What was their response like???? Seriously, dude... This is how you lose credibility.

1-You brag about sending IM an email and whine about their lack of response, then you vanish
2-You brag about SlowTwitch's effectiveness in making IM to respond, but you never effing mention what happened!!!!

Is this whole deal real at all, or you were just looking for attention? Please prove me wrong.

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Follow me on IG: @Commandersnake

My 2 cents from the retired ranks: I think the majority of age groupers- those who will never be close to the podium - do not care; and they certainly don't want to pay any more for testing that does nothing for them. They are there to finish an Ironman and collect the medal. But for the FOP, whether they care or not, what is the alternative? What independent North American full distance race has a competitive age group field across the board? What other North American full distance race offer slots to a higher level event or championship? Races like the Great Floridian, Michigan Titanium and HITS cannot even attract 100 entrants. Where is the satisfaction of making the podium when there aren't even that many in your age group? The reality is that Ironman is the only game in town for competitive athletes who want to see how they stack up to their peers. I do think slowtwitchers care about doping, but until there is a serious alternative in long course racing, especially in North America, nothing will change. Those who do boycott along with the IM-haters will not be missed.

I don't want to divert from the original topic too much. Anyway, I was browsing the TUE literature on either USADA's or WADA's sites. What you said is not literally true, but the requirements for a TUE for testosterone are pretty strict. For elite athletes, I believe you need to be below the reference range (i.e. low side of normal T doesn't qualify) and you need some documentation of an organic cause. Something like the athlete's testicles were removed due to injury would be one of the qualifying conditions. So, you are basically correct, but not literally so.

There may be a slightly less stringent process for testosterone TUEs for amateur athletes. I'm not as clear on the details. Some rich doctor sued USADA.

No race competition = no incentive to improve especially for an particular topic that is expensive for said race organization. We aren’t talking about improving overall race experience, we are talking about an improved service aimed at the what 6% of the racers.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Spot on.