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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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the novacaine (or whatever)they use pre epidural steroid injection gives me quick relief for over 24hrs, then wears off as the actual steroid works it's way into the area and does it's thing. that can take up to a week for me, longer for others as i hear it.
good luck man!

http://www.PatGriskusTri.com
2020 Races: USAT State of CT Age Group Championship Sat June 20th (Oly/Du/Sprint) Wed eve July 8th, Sprint Tri Sat July 18th Hopkins Vineyard Tri at Lake Waramaug http://www.HopkinsVineyardTri.com
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [twain] [ In reply to ]
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twain wrote:
Update?
Assuming since it has been a few days that things are doing much more bueno.


11 week update:

- Pain is way down, can walk most of the day without anything sharp or shooting, unless say I sneeze or cough or getting in or out of car. Oh yea getting on socks still kinda sucks.
- There seems to be a light at end of the tunnel.
- I have formed a little team of: PT (I am seeing 3), Chiro, acupuncture, and pilates instructor. I have re arranged my work schedule to get in for 4 sessions a week. Making getting better a priority over work (thats very hard to do for me).
- Pt's are all aware of each other and each are working slightly different things.
- Chiro once a week to keep things loose but not have them to lose, adj to the thoracic area have helped.
- Acupuncture I was skeptical of but much more a believer of now.
- Pilates: working on walking better, activation of muscle I was not using well, posture, hips..... I should have been doing this years ago.

I cant point to one thing that is working sig better then another but it all together seems to be working.

I am currently walking 2 miles a day, long ways from running a marathon or doing a 6 hour ride but its def progress.

Some of them are telling me its ok to get back on the trainer and some are saying no not quite yet, its hard since I really still want to do something more then walk. But fuck its a different world then 4-6 weeks ago! Thanks for listening and mesg me back members of ST.

I am having some real hope now that I can go race in Hawaii in 2021. TT bikes are up for sale so would need to buy a new one but thats a good problem.

Brendan

https://www.instagram.com/toothengineer/

2020: Covid and herniated disk
2021: Kona, R2R2R
2022: Denali
Last edited by: Toothengineer: Sep 3, 20 11:20
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Question for those that have/had herniated disc: Does it always involve low back pain along with shooting pain down one leg? Are there any tell tell signs when it's a herniated disc vs just a pinched nerve?

I had a bike crash last Sunday and hit a tree at 30kph with my left side; impact was mostly on my left thigh but I also hit the tree hard with my left shoulder. At first I was only feeling the pain on the thigh and the shoulder Sunday through Tuesday, but on Tuesday night, while putting on my sleep shorts, I felt intense pain on my low back that literally put me on the ground. Interestingly, I was barely feeling any pain on my shoulder. I spent all Wednesday barely able to move and getting out of bed was excruciating.
I've been taking Naproxen and Cyclobenzaprine as prescribed and now I am able to move mostly pain free as long as I don't bend my spine. I don't have any shooting pain down any of my legs but I do feel a pinch above my left butt along with shooting pain on my low back with the bending movements.
I have an appointment with a spine specialist on Tuesday but I am nervous that I will get a herniated disc diagnosis.
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [AndresA13] [ In reply to ]
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AndresA13 wrote:
Question for those that have/had herniated disc: Does it always involve low back pain along with shooting pain down one leg? Are there any tell tell signs when it's a herniated disc vs just a pinched nerve?

I had a bike crash last Sunday and hit a tree at 30kph with my left side; impact was mostly on my left thigh but I also hit the tree hard with my left shoulder. At first I was only feeling the pain on the thigh and the shoulder Sunday through Tuesday, but on Tuesday night, while putting on my sleep shorts, I felt intense pain on my low back that literally put me on the ground. Interestingly, I was barely feeling any pain on my shoulder. I spent all Wednesday barely able to move and getting out of bed was excruciating.
I've been taking Naproxen and Cyclobenzaprine as prescribed and now I am able to move mostly pain free as long as I don't bend my spine. I don't have any shooting pain down any of my legs but I do feel a pinch above my left butt along with shooting pain on my low back with the bending movements.
I have an appointment with a spine specialist on Tuesday but I am nervous that I will get a herniated disc diagnosis.

The simple answer to your question is no.
Many people have herniated discs with no symptoms whatsoever.....
Whilst there are some things which will potentially indicate a pinched nerve versus a prolapsed disc, you will likely end up being imaged anyway which will likely be able to get you closer to knowing what is causing your pain.
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [AndresA13] [ In reply to ]
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A tissue-based diagnosis is irrelevant. Nearly 1 of 2 people have disc injuries regardless of pain status. Literally 95% of LBP can be managed conservatively. You are clearly improving and being active is the best thing for you. Clearly, you should avoid bending and sitting as those provoke your pain. Keep doing what you’re doing, it’s working.
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Steve - yours sounds very similar to mine. FYI - I was told probably 20 years ago that I have a likely L4-5 herniation. I get the same "super attack" about every 2 years or so. It would have to be WAY worse before I would consider surgery.

To the OP - I have had the worst flare-up of my situation during this crazy covid time. It was REALLY bad in April and has gotten only slightly better. I believe a lot of it is psychological even though I am a pretty positive person. I chock a lot of it up to more stress with business, family, friends, and just life. The other thing my wife and I were discussing - I hurt everywhere right now - is that over the past 40 years I have frequently tapered, raced, and recovered. Now I have just done regular training straight through . . . I think that may be part of this terrible flare-up.

Best wishes,

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Toothengineer wrote:
Thanks for that, did not know that. Was pretty disheartening to have a day of no pain then followed by a day of significantly more pain.

Motrin 200-400mg or nothing. Not taken anything for pain for 4 days. I figured if I take pain meds then I don’t really know if it’s getting better or not and I don’t want to mask it and do to much on it.

Are you doing planks / working on your abs?

After inflammation goes down in the back, I find strong core is super helpful to getting the last bit of lingering pain to go away
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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Are you doing planks / working on your abs?


Part of what I have learned dealing with a wonky lower back going on 15 years, is I've had to develop a strength and core routine that works for ME! The classic plank, advocated by so many, really irritates my lower back. So I have a simple routine that works for me, and stick to that . . other people might be different.

This does point out the incredible individuality of back problems.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Will update this.......

Now its Nov 23:

Original injury in June and pushed way past its limit into July.


After Speaking with people who reached out to me on ST and talking with my friend who is a Neurosurgeon (and a baller tri guy), really decided to not go surgical route seems like it could maybe fix the issue I had but would lead to other issues.

It's a bumpy road for sure with some up and down days (or weeks).

Whats worked: finding a core routing that works for me and doing it 6-7 days a week (doing 2.5-3 hours of core and weights a week for past 8-10 weeks), swimming has helped as well.

What still does not work: my daily job has been the worst thing for my back and I have had to limit what I do at work and work around it. Next year will bring another doctor in so I can move to just admin work on Tue and Friday.

What I have gotten back to doing since my initial post:
- Running: up to a 6.5 mile long run and 12-15 miles a week over the last 4 weeks.
- Biking: 5-8 hours a week: still all on trainer; every Sat or Sunday I do a 3 hours ride at 1/2IM watts. Hope to move outside by Dec.
- Swimming: no real limitations: other then no flip turns and I am careful about how hard I push off the wall.
- Weights / Core: 2.5-3 hours a week and careful with what I do. Yes I am doing squats.
- Before every run or bike I do something to active muscle.
- I am still sleeping on the floor but plan on buying a new bed this week and moving back to the bed at that point.


I had constant pain for months, periods I could hardly walk...... Now I am re focusing on return to racing in April and Kona in Oct and I think both those happen as long as I make smart choices and listen to what my back is telling me.


Hopefully that helps: but every situation with lower backs is so individual.
Its just a a awful injury that completely debilitating and life changing.

https://www.instagram.com/toothengineer/

2020: Covid and herniated disk
2021: Kona, R2R2R
2022: Denali
Last edited by: Toothengineer: Nov 23, 20 10:31
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Did you try the light dolphin kicking sets in the pool on front, on back, on each side, with and without fins yet or does that hurt?

Also in terms of biking, are you talking TT bike, or road bike. Its really funny, because I have had friends with these issues who are worse in a TT position. Others like me are better in a TT position with more weight on shoulders and less on butt. I would expect that riding outside is better due to variation and not that static position on the trainer. Not sure how much swimming you are doing, but if you can, I would replace some of the trainer time with swim since your feet and lumbar spine are not locked into fixed positions....more give in case there are small aggrevations. Half IM watts for half IM duration sounds like you are almost on the path that you can do Kona watts for Kona duration and you have 10 months to go. So maybe less bike is fine for now.

Walking is always good for range of motion and gradual torsion (depending on nature of your problem).

Did you try super light rowing machine for range of motion and core yet, or is that too hard?
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Did you try the light dolphin kicking sets in the pool on front, on back, on each side, with and without fins yet or does that hurt?

Also in terms of biking, are you talking TT bike, or road bike. Its really funny, because I have had friends with these issues who are worse in a TT position. Others like me are better in a TT position with more weight on shoulders and less on butt. I would expect that riding outside is better due to variation and not that static position on the trainer. Not sure how much swimming you are doing, but if you can, I would replace some of the trainer time with swim since your feet and lumbar spine are not locked into fixed positions....more give in case there are small aggrevations. Half IM watts for half IM duration sounds like you are almost on the path that you can do Kona watts for Kona duration and you have 10 months to go. So maybe less bike is fine for now.

Walking is always good for range of motion and gradual torsion (depending on nature of your problem).

Did you try super light rowing machine for range of motion and core yet, or is that too hard?



Dolphin been scarred to try, maybe will try today. Fins general put to much more pressure on the L5 for some reason; just started using them again around 4-5 weeks ago.

TT vs road bike with my lower back has been interesting. Generally outside TT seems to for. whatever reason be a little easier on the back and road bike on trainer is easier. No clue why.

I walk more then I ever have no: figure thats a great way to just get some blood flowing. From what I have gained in knowledge the disc does not have a very good blood flow so the more you move the better the blood flow is and the faster it can heal.

Been scarred to try the rowing machine: you said just try to go light, so maybe will try that today too.

I use my 3 hours Zwift race on the weekend as more just a release to go out and feel like a athlete again and push some power...... also dont want to be embarrassed when I make it back out on the roads with my normal riding crew.

Edit:
- Really big overnight change for me was drinking water! Sounds crazy I know; but my pilates instructor asked me one day how much I was drinking a day (not including workouts) and I was around 15-30oz. I raised that to 80-100oz and general lower back aches almost disappeared overnight.

https://www.instagram.com/toothengineer/

2020: Covid and herniated disk
2021: Kona, R2R2R
2022: Denali
Last edited by: Toothengineer: Nov 23, 20 12:41
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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haha. I know know the psychology of wanting to push to feel like an athlete again. Also agree about not doing anything that hurts. Let me know how the rowing machine feels at really light effort to expand range of motion at low load. I view it as a really super light deadlift followed by a short "upward row". Its all leg driven if you do it properly.

Also does it hurt to squat like a baseball catcher and stand up from there?
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
haha. I know know the psychology of wanting to push to feel like an athlete again. Also agree about not doing anything that hurts. Let me know how the rowing machine feels at really light effort to expand range of motion at low load. I view it as a really super light deadlift followed by a short "upward row". Its all leg driven if you do it properly.

Also does it hurt to squat like a baseball catcher and stand up from there?

No not at all anymore. I am also doing front and back squats now. well maybe at the very bottom the back starts talking to me.

https://www.instagram.com/toothengineer/

2020: Covid and herniated disk
2021: Kona, R2R2R
2022: Denali
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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What's all this talk about drinking water? You mean I cannot survive only on coffee all day? I could get banned from future riding in Italy for surviving on water rather than espressos and wine only.
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
What's all this talk about drinking water? You mean I cannot survive only on coffee all day? I could get banned from future riding in Italy for surviving on water rather than espressos and wine only.

I drink more coffee and wine then I do water! ..... well now I track my water all day :-(

https://www.instagram.com/toothengineer/

2020: Covid and herniated disk
2021: Kona, R2R2R
2022: Denali
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Toothengineer wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
What's all this talk about drinking water? You mean I cannot survive only on coffee all day? I could get banned from future riding in Italy for surviving on water rather than espressos and wine only.


I drink more coffee and wine then I do water! ..... well now I track my water all day :-(

OK sounds like you're safe in case Team Ineos needs a backup for the Giro next year after your recovery is done (fingers crossed). The organizers won't ban you for wussifying your liquid sources. They probably will ban water bottles from the Giro anyway so that guys like Geriant Thomas dont get knocked out of the race from errant bottles. Just proper espresso stops at the top of Stelvio.
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Toothengineer wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
What's all this talk about drinking water? You mean I cannot survive only on coffee all day? I could get banned from future riding in Italy for surviving on water rather than espressos and wine only.


I drink more coffee and wine then I do water! ..... well now I track my water all day :-(


OK sounds like you're safe in case Team Ineos needs a backup for the Giro next year after your recovery is done (fingers crossed). The organizers won't ban you for wussifying your liquid sources. They probably will ban water bottles from the Giro anyway so that guys like Geriant Thomas dont get knocked out of the race from errant bottles. Just proper espresso stops at the top of Stelvio.

LMAO

https://www.instagram.com/toothengineer/

2020: Covid and herniated disk
2021: Kona, R2R2R
2022: Denali
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