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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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Amnesia wrote:
Toothengineer wrote:
Did anyone try changing their diet? Going with a lot of anti inflammatory foods or any supplements that might help?


Honestly, with your symptoms and MRI findings these changes won't really help much more than the 30% placebo related benefits of any intervention.
Once again, the choice is yours, but don't be scared or put off by surgery. Yes there are pros and cons and some patients are absolutely terrible candidates for surgery, but the longer you leave your pain at difficult levels with all the various wind ups and nervous system changes that occur at a molecular level the more locked in these changes become and the harder they are to reverse. (That is some complex chronic pain medicine there which is something I am heavily involved in....)

Crap you are not painting a pretty picture.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Scott Herbowy is a Mckenzie instructor in Austin. Amazing clinical skills. I would start there. I have taken a couple of his classes with him. You won't find better.
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Toothengineer wrote:
Amnesia wrote:
Toothengineer wrote:
Did anyone try changing their diet? Going with a lot of anti inflammatory foods or any supplements that might help?


Honestly, with your symptoms and MRI findings these changes won't really help much more than the 30% placebo related benefits of any intervention.
Once again, the choice is yours, but don't be scared or put off by surgery. Yes there are pros and cons and some patients are absolutely terrible candidates for surgery, but the longer you leave your pain at difficult levels with all the various wind ups and nervous system changes that occur at a molecular level the more locked in these changes become and the harder they are to reverse. (That is some complex chronic pain medicine there which is something I am heavily involved in....)


Crap you are not painting a pretty picture.

Am just re-reading your original post now....have you tried any epidural injections or nerve sleeve injections? We would often do that first if pain was the major symptom and not much weakness from the herniation. It is a pretty simple day procedure and safe.
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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Amnesia wrote:
Toothengineer wrote:
Amnesia wrote:
Toothengineer wrote:
Did anyone try changing their diet? Going with a lot of anti inflammatory foods or any supplements that might help?


Honestly, with your symptoms and MRI findings these changes won't really help much more than the 30% placebo related benefits of any intervention.
Once again, the choice is yours, but don't be scared or put off by surgery. Yes there are pros and cons and some patients are absolutely terrible candidates for surgery, but the longer you leave your pain at difficult levels with all the various wind ups and nervous system changes that occur at a molecular level the more locked in these changes become and the harder they are to reverse. (That is some complex chronic pain medicine there which is something I am heavily involved in....)


Crap you are not painting a pretty picture.


Am just re-reading your original post now....have you tried any epidural injections or nerve sleeve injections? We would often do that first if pain was the major symptom and not much weakness from the herniation. It is a pretty simple day procedure and safe.

I did 2 rounds of Medrol Dose packs: one round was one week after the the PRP since the PRP must have increased the pressure so much it made life really bad and pain 4x worse. (thats Was 4 weeks ago)

I have my first epidural scheduled for this Friday.

I sent me MRI to my friend thats way smarter then me and a neurosurgeon: he did say that stuff seems small enough and with no muscle weakness so keep doing PT a bit longer.

PT today said it takes around 12 months for all the collegen fibers of a disk to repair, that was new to me.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Hopefully the epidural will do the trick.
I tore my ACL in 2006 playing flag football; jumped up while running, cleat stuck in the mud as I came down on one leg and hyperextended forward over the locked knee. It was pretty dramatic in that I dented the head of my femur. I had to rehab that first, then had surgery (cadaver) and rehab'd after. That injury was sudden and painful but sort of peaked. Same with the surgery; first 3 days were just awful but then life got quickly back to normal. I did phys therapy like a maniac.
In 2011, herniated a disc. Different kind of injury with the sciatica and the constant feeling like you would sneeze and send everything in to spasm. Totally a strange and stressful kind of injury; the unpredictable nature made life suck. Was taking pain killers that would magically allow me to dance around. Crazy shit.
In any case, I got the epidural and it worked. Lots of rehab; I would say the rehab for the ACL post surgery was shorter than the rehab for the back post epidural. But the rehab does really help you make sure your glutes are firing and you have balance on both sides.
I did Wildlfower Olympic after the back rehab in 2:29. The hopeful news is the next year, dropped it down to 2:23.
Point being, based on my experience, you can recover and get back.

So fingers crossed the epidural will work for you. And it's ok to take a break from running. In addition to PT 3x/week, I just swam (no kick turns) and gradually started riding (no aero bars). Eliptical trainers are good, too.
Last edited by: twain: Aug 20, 20 17:35
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [twain] [ In reply to ]
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Hopefully this thread will help others that maybe going through similar stuff.

Today was first day I did not have shooting debilitating pain, still soreness achy but not to the point I was feeling like I had to throw myself on the floor to lay down to get relief.

After today I think am going to hold off on the Steroid injection tomorrow and see how the next week goes, I think that is the smart call? Maybe I will read more about them tonight and wait till morning to make a final decision.

Things I have changed this week compared to the last 8 weeks:

- Eliminated almost all inflammatory foods from my diet
- tippled my water intake to around 100oz a day
- Cut wine from my night time routine
- Found a new PT
- Started working with a pilates / movement specialist
- At work I dialed back my work schedule to see less patients
- Started sleeping on my stomach recommendation of PT since sleeping on stomach was not seeming to help things.
- Working on my mental mindset

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Last edited by: Toothengineer: Aug 20, 20 18:26
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Toothengineer wrote:
Amnesia wrote:
Toothengineer wrote:
Amnesia wrote:
Toothengineer wrote:
Did anyone try changing their diet? Going with a lot of anti inflammatory foods or any supplements that might help?


Honestly, with your symptoms and MRI findings these changes won't really help much more than the 30% placebo related benefits of any intervention.
Once again, the choice is yours, but don't be scared or put off by surgery. Yes there are pros and cons and some patients are absolutely terrible candidates for surgery, but the longer you leave your pain at difficult levels with all the various wind ups and nervous system changes that occur at a molecular level the more locked in these changes become and the harder they are to reverse. (That is some complex chronic pain medicine there which is something I am heavily involved in....)


Crap you are not painting a pretty picture.


Am just re-reading your original post now....have you tried any epidural injections or nerve sleeve injections? We would often do that first if pain was the major symptom and not much weakness from the herniation. It is a pretty simple day procedure and safe.


I did 2 rounds of Medrol Dose packs: one round was one week after the the PRP since the PRP must have increased the pressure so much it made life really bad and pain 4x worse. (thats Was 4 weeks ago)

I have my first epidural scheduled for this Friday.

I sent me MRI to my friend thats way smarter then me and a neurosurgeon: he did say that stuff seems small enough and with no muscle weakness so keep doing PT a bit longer.

PT today said it takes around 12 months for all the collegen fibers of a disk to repair, that was new to me.

The time course for the disc to heal is pretty long, but that does not tend to correlate with the improvement in your pain symptoms.
The epidural is a good option, great that you have no weakness. Interestingly my pain specialist that I work alongside never does PRP for these, will get her thoughts on it and let you know.
Keep us updated if you can.
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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Yea I went into the PRP full realizing it was going to be 50/50 (at best). That Dr and I had talked about it when I had hurt the back in 2017 and at that time we decided not to do it then. He also has written an article on it's effectiveness in Journal of the American Osteopathic Association. "Platelet- Rich Plassma and epidural Platelet Lysate: Noval Treatment for Lumbar Disk Herniation" Dr Rawson. Would I have do it again if I know what the week after was going to be like, no way. At the time it seemed to me a none invasive way to start working on the problem. On the flip side it typically takes 2-8 weeks to start to see results.

My afternoon has been not so great, so still have a scheduled appt tomorrow for the epidural.

In the past my body has responded good to steroids: lingering shoulder pain (broken clavicle) injection 100% fixed it in 3 days.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Toothengineer wrote:
Yea I went into the PRP full realizing it was going to be 50/50 (at best). That Dr and I had talked about it when I had hurt the back in 2017 and at that time we decided not to do it then. He also has written an article on it's effectiveness in Journal of the American Osteopathic Association. "Platelet- Rich Plassma and epidural Platelet Lysate: Noval Treatment for Lumbar Disk Herniation" Dr Rawson. Would I have do it again if I know what the week after was going to be like, no way. At the time it seemed to me a none invasive way to start working on the problem. On the flip side it typically takes 2-8 weeks to start to see results.

My afternoon has been not so great, so still have a scheduled appt tomorrow for the epidural.

In the past my body has responded good to steroids: lingering shoulder pain (broken clavicle) injection 100% fixed it in 3 days.

I will track down that article and have a good read. I will admit to getting a bit annoyed at times when a more "novel" treatment is given first over those treatments with established efficacy, like an epidural steroid. As a medical practitioner and the risks were similar, I would go with the treatment with proven efficacy first.....
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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Amnesia wrote:
Toothengineer wrote:
Yea I went into the PRP full realizing it was going to be 50/50 (at best). That Dr and I had talked about it when I had hurt the back in 2017 and at that time we decided not to do it then. He also has written an article on it's effectiveness in Journal of the American Osteopathic Association. "Platelet- Rich Plassma and epidural Platelet Lysate: Noval Treatment for Lumbar Disk Herniation" Dr Rawson. Would I have do it again if I know what the week after was going to be like, no way. At the time it seemed to me a none invasive way to start working on the problem. On the flip side it typically takes 2-8 weeks to start to see results.

My afternoon has been not so great, so still have a scheduled appt tomorrow for the epidural.

In the past my body has responded good to steroids: lingering shoulder pain (broken clavicle) injection 100% fixed it in 3 days.


I will track down that article and have a good read. I will admit to getting a bit annoyed at times when a more "novel" treatment is given first over those treatments with established efficacy, like an epidural steroid. As a medical practitioner and the risks were similar, I would go with the treatment with proven efficacy first.....

I had talked with the Dr and my PT about this and we considered this the least invasive of the two options. Now this is def not my field so I go off what the drs around me are telling me, throwing in some PRP seemed at the time easy and not to invasive, once again I would never want to go through that week I went through after the PRP again and unless I take another MRI which I don't think I will won't know if it really worked or not.

Today did the epidural with contrast dye. I am a baby 100% but man thats not an easy thing to go through. I think it was more the dye going in but my right IT band (area) / hamstring, and calf went ice cold then burning followed by so much pressure it felt like something was going to pop out of the skin..... they dont tell you that in the youtube videos (once again I am a baby so it could just be my perception of it).

I had to drive around to some of my offices to deal with some broken AC units and some cases right after and felt ok, about 2.5 hours latter went to Cosco and was walking around feeling mild burning in hamstring and the right foot lateral to bottom but not all the way to center of bottom of foot was tingly and numb: very odd feeling.

Got home and kinda of said fuck it went and drove the 3rd around for 45 min just for some mental relief. I have this amazing back support thing in this car and carbon bucket seats feel amazing (once you are in... hard as hell to get in).

When I got home I went and walked dog for 6 min! First 6 min of zero pain I have had in cant even remember how long. So looking at that as a positive.

What I am not sure with the epidural what to expect next? Google is not turning up great results.

Is the pain relief from the injection does it typical stick or get better? Does it go back to where it was after a certain amount of days? Are there things that can be done to make it stick or improve?

I am scheduled with PT 2x on Monday, Chiro and Pilates/movement Wed, Friday back to PT. Limited actual clinical working on smiles / teeth all week so that should help.

As always thank you to everyone that has contributed words / advice / encouragement; its been one of my few outlets that past week.

Btw covid and this I find I am looking at life a little differently then I used to.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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So I work as an anesthesiologist along side a pain specialist and we do all ours under sedation as they can be pretty unpleasant, as you found out!
In terms of the pain relief from them....you may get some initial rapid analgesia from any local that might have been put in with the epidural. That will be short lived (hours normally). The steroid often takes a few days to kick in, then that can give you pain relief for quite a sustained period of time. Everyone is different, we are often doing them for pretty nasty disc lesions where the patient is trying to avoid surgery. We also do quite a few actual disc blocks (ie putting local and steroid into the disc itself). Fingers crossed this settles it all down for you.
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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Amnesia wrote:
So I work as an anesthesiologist along side a pain specialist and we do all ours under sedation as they can be pretty unpleasant, as you found out!
In terms of the pain relief from them....you may get some initial rapid analgesia from any local that might have been put in with the epidural. That will be short lived (hours normally). The steroid often takes a few days to kick in, then that can give you pain relief for quite a sustained period of time. Everyone is different, we are often doing them for pretty nasty disc lesions where the patient is trying to avoid surgery. We also do quite a few actual disc blocks (ie putting local and steroid into the disc itself). Fingers crossed this settles it all down for you.

Thank you sir :-)

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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To the OP, I'm really sorry to hear about your struggles. Long-lasting injuries are the worst, and the back in particular seems to vary so much in how it presents and responds. Hang in there.

I've read this thread with interest because my wife has struggled with sometimes-debilitating back pain over the past couple of years. At my urging, she finally got an MRI and saw a spine specialist, but they seem to think it isn't a huge deal since she doesn't have pain radiating down either leg. Here are the highlights from the MRI. Can any of you who have gone through this or are medical professionals comment on how likely you think this will respond to PT only? The part that worries me is 8-9mm of herniation. Sounds like a lot, but I just don't have any points of comparison.

IMPRESSION:

1. L4-5 and L5-S1 levels show mild to moderate disc degeneration with endplate irregularity adjacent marrow degenerative changes.
2. At L4-5 there is an eight - 9 mm broad-based posterocentral disc herniation with mass effect on left L5 sleeve origin. Facetal arthrosis present with mild central canal stenosis.
3. L5-S1 shows a 4 for mm broad-based posterocentral disc herniation into ventral epidural fat. Facet arthrosis without central canal or foraminal stenosis.
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Twenty years ago I was having severe back pain. Hurt to walk. Hurt to sit. No way to find comfort or ease the pain. I hurt my back initially lifting weights in my teens. Saw a surgeon in 2000 who told me surgery was going to eventually be required and that my running days were over. But he wanted me to try PT first. So I lost some extra weight, did the PT and never went back to the surgeon again.

Since then I have ran thousands of miles, finished multiple marathons and triathlon races of all distances including the full distance.
Occasionally my back flares up but for the most part all is good.
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Similar thread here: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...perience_P7251735-2/

And I wrote there:
"Back issues are no joke and it's amazing how they manifest themselves. I tore my ACL and had it replaced in 2006 then herniated a disc in 2010.
The disc issue was far worse (constant fear of complete lock up) and took longer to rehab. Some observations/advice:
- Find the best PT around and look specifically for back injury specialty as well as someone who gets the whole picture on multisport. Go to PT religiously. It's not just about the McKenzie stretches, it is also about strengthening your glutes, your feet/ankle mobility, Achilles, calves, etc. Typically injuries like this originate from lower down and manifest at the back. Likely you have an imbalance and your glutes aren't firing properly.
- Recovery will take a long time
- Be careful on the bike, esp the TT position
- Be careful swimming with flip turns as that can cause jarring
- I *think* anti-inflammatory meds are ok but stay off the uber pain killers unless you want to get addicted and constipated
- Focus on posture
- Get a new bed! Tempurpedic type on the firmer side
- Massage ball (like a softer lacrosse ball) on the pressure points: piriformis, psoas. Basically where your inner leg terminates on the front, your ass cheeks, the whole ridge around your hip, lower back, etc. All of those areas are likely pulling on your lower back which is creating the imbalance.
- Don't use stability control shoes. Use neutral ones and zero drop shoes and try to walk around barefoot. Your foot is the first step (pun intended) in absorbing the impact to your body."

How old is your mattress?
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [twain] [ In reply to ]
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Good idea on the continued foam rolling and ball work: i have kinda stopped doing those things.

Yea i have 2 tempurpedics but I have been reduced to the floor the last 3 weeks.

Yea flip turns not done one since 2018! Lol


Update on the epidural: day 2 post injection is def worse then the day before the injection with still some tinging in the foot and overall shooting / stabbing pain.

Working on saying a lot of this is still in my mind.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Toothengineer wrote:
Good idea on the continued foam rolling and ball work: i have kinda stopped doing those things.

Yea i have 2 tempurpedics but I have been reduced to the floor the last 3 weeks.

Yea flip turns not done one since 2018! Lol


Update on the epidural: day 2 post injection is def worse then the day before the injection with still some tinging in the foot and overall shooting / stabbing pain.

Working on saying a lot of this is still in my mind.

Don't get too dis-heartened just yet. The steroid takes a few days to kick in so won't be doing much just yet and you can often get a little flare up before it starts to settle down. Just take things one day at a time and keep moving and exercising where safe to do so. How are you managing your pain (medication wise)?
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for that, did not know that. Was pretty disheartening to have a day of no pain then followed by a day of significantly more pain.

Motrin 200-400mg or nothing. Not taken anything for pain for 4 days. I figured if I take pain meds then I don’t really know if it’s getting better or not and I don’t want to mask it and do to much on it.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Toothengineer wrote:
Thanks for that, did not know that. Was pretty disheartening to have a day of no pain then followed by a day of significantly more pain.

Motrin 200-400mg or nothing. Not taken anything for pain for 4 days. I figured if I take pain meds then I don’t really know if it’s getting better or not and I don’t want to mask it and do to much on it.

Don't get too caught up in trying to avoid the pain relief at the moment. Often there is an additive or synergistic relationship and you won't really end up masking the results of the epidural so just use what you need to use to get you through the day (talking mainly non opioid medications here....use anything opioid based sparingly because of other issues).
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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Amnesia wrote:
Toothengineer wrote:
Thanks for that, did not know that. Was pretty disheartening to have a day of no pain then followed by a day of significantly more pain.

Motrin 200-400mg or nothing. Not taken anything for pain for 4 days. I figured if I take pain meds then I don’t really know if it’s getting better or not and I don’t want to mask it and do to much on it.


Don't get too caught up in trying to avoid the pain relief at the moment. Often there is an additive or synergistic relationship and you won't really end up masking the results of the epidural so just use what you need to use to get you through the day (talking mainly non opioid medications here....use anything opioid based sparingly because of other issues).

100%

Not even touched anything besides Ibuprofen or Tylenol (well guess wine kinda counts).

I did just walk 1 mile pain free today: thats a first in can't even remember how long ago! This was after last night feeling a ton of pain for a solid hour. Its a roll-coaster with the lower back.

I have found a couple of things at PT which help: Straight pressure (second person has to deliver pressure) on L5 while doing a push up / up dog movement and doing the same up dog movement on my own but with shifting my hips to the left first.

I can sit in a chair again pain free if I put a big towel right behind my back as well.

Still focusing on hydration and not staying in any one position that long.

Was able to speak with Nick who had sent me a DM a few days ago on here.... was just good to hear someones voice going through same thing.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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I think your best bet on recovery is identifying the pain generator. It's not easy.

I am a neurologist, neuromuscular specialist. I treat and diagnose back pain/radiculopathy all the time. I also have 2 herniated disks in my back (L4-5 and L5-S1), approx same onset as yours (2011).

The herniated disk is the easy thing to see on the scan. It may not be the source of your pain.

Epidural steroid will work for neuropathic pain. This is pain caused by the irritated/inflammed nerve root near the disk. This kind of pain can be sharp, but is often achy, throbbing, gnawing, and is CONSTANT. All the time. Doesn't matter what activity you do. Does not get better from lying down. The pain is often in the leg, not in the back. Sometimes it's in the buttock.

Pain that is mostly in/around the back is usually musculoskeletal pain. This worsens with activity. Depending on what it is that's generating the pain (ligaments, tendons, muscles, fascia, joints), it can be sharp, aching or throbbing. It will worsen with the activity and improve with rest.

Keep working with your pain doc and your PT to try to identify the pain generator. If its MSK, pain doc should be able to knock it out with an anesthetic and this is a good diagnostic trial. They can inject steriods same time, and see if pain is gone for a few months. If its nerve pain and the epidural doesn't help, there are good medications that can help.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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DrTriKat wrote:
I think your best bet on recovery is identifying the pain generator. It's not easy.

I am a neurologist, neuromuscular specialist. I treat and diagnose back pain/radiculopathy all the time. I also have 2 herniated disks in my back (L4-5 and L5-S1), approx same onset as yours (2011).

The herniated disk is the easy thing to see on the scan. It may not be the source of your pain.

Epidural steroid will work for neuropathic pain. This is pain caused by the irritated/inflammed nerve root near the disk. This kind of pain can be sharp, but is often achy, throbbing, gnawing, and is CONSTANT. All the time. Doesn't matter what activity you do. Does not get better from lying down. The pain is often in the leg, not in the back. Sometimes it's in the buttock.

Pain that is mostly in/around the back is usually musculoskeletal pain. This worsens with activity. Depending on what it is that's generating the pain (ligaments, tendons, muscles, fascia, joints), it can be sharp, aching or throbbing. It will worsen with the activity and improve with rest.

Keep working with your pain doc and your PT to try to identify the pain generator. If its MSK, pain doc should be able to knock it out with an anesthetic and this is a good diagnostic trial. They can inject steriods same time, and see if pain is gone for a few months. If its nerve pain and the epidural doesn't help, there are good medications that can help.

Thank you for insight; yes at first we thought it could be something in the hip, and still working on those muscles with PT. Feel like its more L5/s1 but yea who knows!

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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So ten week update (losing track but I think its 10 weeks):

Last 24 hours have been really amazing: pain still present but no spikes that make me break out in cold sweat on my neck and have been able to walk for 30 min with nothing really sharp or super achy happening.

Changes:

Monday: PT x 2
Tue: Pilates: only doing 3 things
Wed:
1st: Chiro (first visit to Chiro alone, prev PT had done some adj but not this many: worked on Thoracic section a lot more).
2nd: Acupuncture / dry needling: man had flashbacks to my PRP and Epidural got through and it was far from fun, if I had never had had the Prp and epidural it would have made this much easier. Oddly felt much better right after, sore but better.
3rd: Pilates again.
- sore that night at sites of acupuncture.

Up until today had not done any work on teeth just exams which minimizes the bend and twist: I have some amazing co workers and other drs I work with that have picked up the slack and I am very appreciative.

Today: really no bad pain.

Still working the mental aspect of this all telling myself it will be ok and its not so bad and I will get through this.

Now I am not sure if the steroid from last Friday is kicking in and this bit of relief is short lived, maybe the Prp is working, is it the increases PT visits, of did the Chiro or acupuncture just do some magic?????

Going to enjoy these moments of no pain and hope they last.

First first time in a long time have thoughts of riding a bike and maybe still be able to race Kona in 13 months.

(I have listed both my TT bikes for sale and if I can get back to riding ever will be on a bike I can adj stack height very easy depending on how my back it feeling that day)

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Last edited by: Toothengineer: Aug 27, 20 23:00
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Re: L5 Herniation Surgery vs Continue PT / healing [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Update?
Assuming since it has been a few days that things are doing much more bueno.
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Re: L5 Herniation Diary: PT / PRP / Cortesone / Injections / Surgery? / Advice [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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So sorry you are going through this:( I have herniations in L4 and L5 from a bad fall when I was in HS. I have seen the same chiropractor for the past 20 years, have an excellent PT, and am very disciplined with my stretching and strengthening. I also have bad days/weeks but have learned what I can and can't do during a flare up. I have decided that surgery has too many risks and have been able to keep it pretty much at bay. I have run Boston 20x and have done 16 IMs including Kona...so....don't give up hope! Get a good team around you who can help keep you strong and flexible, and who can help you troubleshoot when things get tough. Also, you will get really good at distinguishing pain from an injury, as opposed to pain/discomfort caused by your herniation. In general, I will train/race if it's nerve pain that doesn't impair my form, but will lay off if I suspect pain from injury. Good luck and let me know if you would like to connect!
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