Hmm. Thats not how I read it and not how I think he means it, but after rereading it I'm less sure. I don't think he would be all that keen on advertising his chain though if it were 2.5 watts slower than other options out there, and certainly not at that price. My data on Dura-Ace chains being the fastest comes from this article, where if you scroll about halfway down you see some data from ceramic speed showing Dura ace hg901 and Campy chains clearly running the most efficient.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Interesting. So I spent the past 2 days cleaning my ultegra chains for Summer and my bikes in prep for a wax, but when I get ready to do my dura ace race only chains, I guess I should run them for a few hours on the trainer pre-treating of any kind, then do the full cleaning process and wax. With them truly being race only chains I would hope the efficiency would stay for 56mi x 8 races.

Thanks for the insight. No need to answer right now of course, but I assume the durability differences at peak efficiency is because your process evenly loosens the chains, while the natural wear does that imperfectly?

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
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I've never seen a study where a chain held up at low fiction for 400 miles.

200 tends to be a breaking point.

Also with hot wax, the second and 3rd cleaning are easy.. Frankly, you can just dip in boiling water (or grab a small ultra sonic cleaner and use hot simple green).

The dirty wax melts off and you can go re do the hot wax.

I tend to do this every 100-150 (or before an A. Only the first round with the chemical stripping is super annoying

I have two Premier chains (1 still in the bag and will be used starting this spring on the road bike) and I have a bottle of the Premier Ultra Glide lubricant. I also use other chains in a rotation and generally go with a KMC (just personal preference - not endorsing) and do my own cleaning and hot wax. Currently the Premier connex chain is not being used because of harsh winter weather and I just soon use a different chain right now.

Fortunately I have only used the Ultra Glide lubricant as a quick and easy treatment on the cheaper chains. Why I say fortunately is that one of the chief benefits that I like about waxing is a super clean drive train and clean fingers if a chain is thrown off. I find that when I use the UG lubricant that the chain and drive train get a bit dirty. Not as bad as traditional oil, but still not as clean as wax. Therefore, if I have time I would rather ultrasonic clean a used chain and hot wax.

Disclaimer: I do not race so I am not chasing the nth degree of saved wattage. The chains I have used so far, be it a brand new Premier chain or a self cleaned and waxed chain, I cannot sense the difference and post ride data using a decent power meter does not show any difference in terms of training effect, feel or sound.

Would I buy more chains from Premier Bike in the future? Yep! Will I buy more other brands of chains and clean and wax those? Yep! :-)
Mainly because between consistently using a road bike and a tri bike I have 4 chains in rotation. Is that necessary? Not really, but that's what I do. :-)

currently
Tri bike: Premier/Connex and KMC
Road bike: SRAM and KMC

So my opinion on your initial question. If you buy the Premier chain you will get a nice waxed chain, but if you get a cheap chain you will have something to start learning the process of cleaning and waxing yourself. If it were me I would get a cheaper chain and start learning the process.

I think you have the idea correct. And, I think your race chain will be just right if you do the trainer thing :-)

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

I think two things are being conflated.

A home wax job only last X miles no matter how it is done. That wax job is being done strictly as a great lubricant. The physical asperities of the chain are only being modified with use. Because its stretching while wearing; it is always creating some friction "point on point" - the chain is never really smooth.

The process we do on a new chain - physically smooths all the metal parts from a manufacturing level of 15 micro inches variance (peak to valley) to a finish of 2.75 micro inches peak to valley. All the metal surfaces are smooth. Then its waxed.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Yup, agreed.. I was just responding to bens 8x70.3 race on one wax

Ah yeah I didn't necessarily mean all those races on one wax, but rather hoping for the most efficient physical properties of the chain over that span. Although I probably would have been tempted to do it on one wax so good to know not to as well!

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Curious...why did you decide to use Connex chains for your process as opposed to ________ (pick another brand)?

Quality of manufacturing and quick link. The chain will last a long long time.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

I don't think the data is all that clear. It shows that those two chains are the most efficient out of the box. The variation from hour 0 to hour 13 isn't very much - no more than ~0.5W.

But the KMC 12S Eagle, AXS Force, and AXS Red show intriguing increases in efficiency over just those few hours. Basically 2W for the Force chain. It's a bummer the AXS Red data is cut so short.

And that's only 13 hours. Those chains could very well "loosen up" into become the most efficient chains in that list. Or at least peers of the Shimano/Campy ones. I'd love to see that thing run to 100 hours.

My takeaways from that chart are: 1) SRAM X01 Eagle isn't great, 2) Don't race on a brand new chain.

The rest of the chains all end up in basically the same place: ~4W (taking some extrapolation liberties with AXS Red)

I’m all about Dan’s Optimized chains! I currently have his chain on the Zwift setup when I was trying to get invited to the Pro-Am races (don’t laugh there is cash prizes on the line), also I have a handful of his chains prepped for the go really fast days on the track!

I've had pretty good results with just dish detergent and scalding water in an ultrasonic cleaner for half an hour.

I can't prove that it works as well as the Molten Speed Wax-like sequence of baths. But it was dry to the feel, and when I put it on my bike dry to test, it gave the awful dry chain squeal as I turned the crank.

Good enough for me.

Dan

How do you feel your chains stack up in terms of noise and shifts quality?

It’s about the same as others. When it’s time to lube the noise goes up a bit.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

There is a new Velo News article that just happened to come out in their Jan/Feb addition - written by Lenard Zinn on this topic.

I tried to upload it but the file was too big :-( so you will have to google it unless someone here can help load it up.

It shows the cost - on most of the more popular chains - based on usable miles. The Connex 11SX wins by a big margin. That is a function of quality manufacturing.

It does not talk about friction directly. But, based on cost per mile its' a winner - now if you could reduce the friction of that long lasting chain to a level far lower than any other chain - it would be ideal.

That is what we do.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Does anyone know if you can run campy chains on Shimano setups or do they do something different that doesn't make this possible?