Premier would likely tell you to buy the Premier chain and then use the Premier Lube. It's tested to be faster than wax.

If you're dead set on waxing, just buy Shimano Ultegra chains and then completely degrease them. Start waxing from there.

Source for the claim that Premier chain tested faster than wax? EDIT: I guess the claim comes from the Premier product page with no citing. I'd love to see some numbers as every indpendent test I've ever seen has said you have to do submersion. And to be clear I've used premier lube for 2 years on all my bikes.

I'm also beginning waxing this year and after a lot of research I elected to buy two ultegra chains and two dura-ace race only chains for my wife and I, plus 3 bags of molten speed wax. Every single thing I've read is that the only way to get the true wax experience is to do full submersion waxing. I don't doubt that pre-treated chains are great to start, but then they require the same treatment like any other chain. Hard for me to justify the price when I can buy a dura-ace chain for $35, especially when dura-ace chains consistently test faster than every single other chain out there.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Where are those test results, just out of curiosity?

They are not disclosed.

Ask MTM what chain he runs

I'm interested in test results, with a protocol. Not anecdotes from stars.

Sorry bruh

MTM tests all his own choices if I'm not mistaken

No worries. Just be careful. You worded as if it were accepted fact that Premier lube was faster than wax. It doesn't appear that's the case.

I just follow the N= sort of 1 rules of the internet.

Yes, agree Premier would make that claim. That's why I'm asking on this forum. I am dead set on waxing but really don't feel like dealing with the prep work. I'm ok to dip the chain in wax every couple hundred.

So, if I don't want to deal with the initial prep work (yes, super easy I get it) what are my choices if I am dead set on waxing?

Probably the Premier chain and lube since they are definitely intended to go together then.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Probably obvious, but you need to degrease your cassettes too.

 

I am getting ready to do a new chain. Send me your chain and $40 and I will clean and wax it with Molten Speed Wax for you. Return shipping included.

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Once, I was fast. But I got over it.

As a newbie to waxing. It couldn’t be much easier to clean entire drive train / chain, and then rewax.

Maybe an hour to clean everything, 5 mins to rewax and get chain back on the bike

Are you asking or staying it will take an hour to clean?

My first time, it took me about an hour to clean everything really well

If you forget we're talking about chains here, comments like that are pretty funny

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

It took me a lot longer the first time, but then again I'm Italian

Makes me think we need a whole "Out of context" thread where we just quote other threads with, well, no context.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

So far, I am two rides in to the waxed life and I love being able to get my bike on/off the Kickr, in/out of my car, and staying clean!

Life is better with a waxed chain and non-dirty, greasy fingers ;-)

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DFL > DNF > DNS

Answering you but just a general thought.


Our lube just makes it easier and is the best "easy" way.

If an athlete is willing to clean and hot wax every few 100 miles - that is better than applying our lube. 2nd best is our lube; 3rd Squirt lube.

If you are going to take the time to hot wax - then any of the wax and wax combinations are good. All very close - you don't have to over think it.

The biggest difference is the chain you start with. Our process makes the chain super smooth so its' fast and lasts a long time.

If we did not smooth the pins, plate and rollers I would not purchase a Connex chain for racing - maybe just the quick link. Its' a tight chain out of the box and takes a long time to break in on a bike. Our process fixes that so you get the smoothest chain and one that lasts a long time.

Most other chains are made loose out of the box. That is why they tested better in the often sited results from testing. Anyone could have taken a very used chain (of any brand) off their bike, cleaned it, lubed it and it would have tested better than all the others tested.

If an athlete wants a fast set up and did not want to purchase our chain due to the initial cost - I would recommend getting the loosest chain I could find and run it in for 75 miles to knock off all the high points - clean it - hot wax it every 150 miles - use it for a total of 750 miles and then get a new one and start over.

Testing: We have done a sh.t ton of testing over the last 15 years on all kinds of metal parts, components and systems. There are hundred's of 3rd party papers written on the process we use. Timken, REM, Modern Machine Magazine etc.. (Google - Isotropic finish treatment) have a lot of internal and 3rd party studies on their sites. No other company that sells you chains does what we do to them. I don't release our chain studies because chain systems are hard to do and I'm not going to tell our competitors how we do it.

So - chains are a 0 - 5.7 watt decision. Then the decision is money or effort. If you choose effort the delta between doing it your self and purchasing the best is about 2.5 watts. I hope that helps.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

I love using my Premier chain for the girl and I for races. Thank you Dan! Super easy to throw on and runs very smooth. I clean and rewax after a few hundred miles of racing or after any race in the rain. For training, I use an ultegra chain that has been cleaned with mineral spirits and alcohol to get the factory lube off and then soak in a slow cooker of paraffin wax (change the wax every year). Rewax the training chain every 300ish miles (live in the dry desert) and go through maybe 2 chains a year.

Thanks for all those details Dan. this is super interesting to me and kind of making me second-guess my decisions but I still am, forgive me, a little bit skeptical that your chain could be 2 1/2 watts faster than the next fastest chain. Cyclingtips big chain test recently has the difference in the fastest chain and slowest chain they tested at 2 1/2 Watts, with a bunch of other chains being in between that margin. It would seem crazy to me that you can make a chain essentially twice as efficient as the absolute next best competitor. I definitely appreciate that your lube is good, like I said, I've been using it exclusively for 2 years now, but I was able to buy 2 Dura-Ace chains, 2 ultegra chains, and 3 bags of wax for basically the same price as one of your chains.

I am chasing every single marginal gain this year, and 2 1/2 Watts seems more than enough to justify the price but it just still seems like such a high number. So am I misunderstanding something, or would your chain as a race only chain be a full 2 1/2 Watts faster then a properly cleaned and wax submerged Dura-Ace chain?

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

If I read his note correctly, any brand chain that is loose* (used) cleaned and then waxed would actually be 2.5 watts faster than his chain. His chain is faster out of the box than tighter brand chains and is easier than waxing. But any chain loosened up and waxed is faster than his chain, then his chain with his lube, then squirt lube for the order of fastest.

* I have no knowledge where Ultegra and dura ace chains land on the tight/loose scale when new, so maybe they would be fast new (if loose) if cleaned and waxed

I'm happy to discuss it and thank you for your interest. Its getting late here in Illinois so I will check this thread again in the morning.

Short answer is - yes.

If you take an Ultegra level chain and clean it and hot wax it you should get about a 3 watt savings over just the normal Ultegra level chain out of the box. I have not tested the Dura-Ace specifically but it should be slightly better than the Ultegra.

If you purchase a Connex chain from us and run it in about 5 minutes it will save you about 2.5 watts over the Ultegra level chain that you cleaned and hot waxed and it will stay that way for a long time as long as you keep it clean and lubed.

The delta might be a little less for the Dura-Ace but not much.

If you took the Dura-Ace or Ultegra chain and used it for some number of miles so it was very well used but before it stretched too much - then cleaned it and hot waxed it - there would be very little difference for a short period of time. But you would be much closer to the end of the useful life of that Dura-Ace or Ultegra.

It's like a race car engine - loose is good - best if it blows up just past the finish line.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com