Well Frodo races non drafting too and I THINK he would have beaten Mark in a head to head non drafting race like he beat Brownlee at 70.3 World's in Port Elizabeth last year. Frodo would outswim Mark, Out ride him and arrive at T2 earlier. At least this is my take. If the gap closed Frodo would take Mark in a sprint finish. Or Frodo would just outrun Mark. I realize different eras, but in my view Frodo is just a more complete athlete than Mark was. Frodo is racing deeper fields than Mark. Mark was waaaaaay ahead of his time relative to the field (as was Dave Scott).

Mark Allen had an 8:09 finish time 30 years ago, on a round tube, steel framed bike with the goofiest aero bars ever. That time is still in the top 10 (for winners). You give him Nike Next % and a modern aero bike, he would have set a record that would probably still be standing.

It is not often that you have someone that compares favorably 30 years later in an endurance sport, and Mark Allen does. That is why the Iron War talk is valid and why Mark Allen gets my vote.

Wind.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Wind? 😁

Couldnt decide between 'win' and 'word' ?
Or did you mean 'kona wind' like 'hot air' ?

The wind speed in Kona varies so much from year to year that comparing times one year to another is almost pointless.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

My educated guess is that on 20 ITU starts Jan beat them 3 maybe 4 times max. Jan was in the right place at the right time when he won in 2008. Brownlee was just coming on the scene and the sport hasn't been the same since. But Jan in his prime on the start line today and he would be a nonfactor in the race. There are at least a dozen (probably more) runners who are 30+ seconds better off the bike. I put him at a Jonas Schaumberg talent level.

Yeah, Jan is sooooo bad that he got gifted a fluke win at Beijing. Almost like Lance giving Ventoux to Pantani....I think NOT!

Simon Whitfield totally screwed up his sprint....no one including Simon can sustain a sprint longer than 10 seconds....not even Usein Bolt. Frodo timed his sprint better than Simon, Bevan Docherty and Gomez. This is part of winning at sport, knowing when to light your matches. Look at Kona this year. Frodo knew when to burn through his matches. Brownlee clearly did not.

Do you guys realize how much greatness it takes to be in Gold medal winning position. Simon Whitfield did that in Sydney...he almost did in Beijing and mis timed his sprint. Hamish Carter did it in Athens from the bike break. Frodo in Beijing from the sprint in a track meet...and then Brownlee, literally like an alien just grinds people down with attacks all day in London and Rio and remains the last man standing (it works for him in 1:45 races....less so in 70.3 and Ironman).

But Javier's record when he really really needs to win those medals is not as awesome as Brownlee or Frodo. Brownlee beats him when it counts at Olympic and Frodo has beaten him most of the time at 70.3 Worlds head to head (minus 70.3 Worlds Tremblant)...sure he has a boat load of ITU wins, but we can say Frodo has a boat load of long course wins too. I know you guys are going to say the long course fields are soft compared to ITU, but if they are so soft than how come they are hard to win? Ask Mark Allen how hard it was to win long course races when he was winning Olympic races every weekend

Because I said he was in the right place at the right time I am pronouncing him a fluke? Utter nonsense. If you want to argue on emotion, fine. I thought you were intelligent but what do I know?

If you believe that Jan (in his prime) could run with today's ITU athletes off the bike, fine. I don't think you will find many who agree with you.

A discussion of the greatest consists of a list only 4-6 long. Jan, Mark, Ali, Javi and a few others. Nit-picking is essential to any debate about this because all these guys are in rare-air.

 

Agreed, he was at Right place, right time = finishline, First

Brutal race, very nice coverage