Without question. You also need to mention his 1.06 run at im70.3wc in sa last year against brownlee and gomez.

Yes. He is.
Not only this but from all we can see he is a model professional.

When my kids want a sports star to look to I will point them to him, no drug taking football idiots.

He deserves this. It’s only a shame that such a small part of the world sees this.

You left out his 7:35 in Roth and his World Champ's Gold in the mixed team relay.

He also scores extra points for marrying an Olympic Gold medallist.

I've still got Mark Allen as the man. His big race record was pretty special & you'd think there was an Olympic Gold for him if they were around back then & he set himself for it.

As I typed this I was questioning if we could transpose Mark Allen to now or send Jan back to the time of Mark and have them race head to head at their respective peaks, who wins. I think Jan is a better swimmer and biker. Mark was a better Ironman runner, but I think Jan would be a better olympic or half IM runner

Does he still hold the record at Roth?



Cant compare wins across generations because olympics and 70.3 didnt exist and improving depth of field makes each win more scarce now

Cant compare times because tech improved a lot and depth of field helps

Current contenders victories are fresh in mind giving some bias

Pity you cant have a goat for each generation cos thats not the definition lol

Yes

/thread

Yes and No

It really depends on what is deemed more important: short course or long course?

Long course: Yes. But I think he needs a few more victories to completely convince the old timers.

Short Course: No. Outside of Beijing his ITU record was nothing close to GOAT and I think he benefited from straddling two eras. Made the move to Long Course at the right time.

If it's a combination of the two you'd have to say yes. To win all the big races across the two "codes" of triathlon and to have the longevity that he has (I put this down to moving to LC earlier than most) is what sets him apart. And doing all this against the type of fields that Mark and Dave never had to face.

Mark Allen is still better. He won heaps more.

Get me a race starts / wins for more information.

Jan didn’t ever win an itu race did he?

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Frodeno is awesome! I believe the best of this era and probably greatest of all time.

The Beijing Olympics (which he won) was an itu race.

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Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching

In my book the right way to do it would be to define GOAT, or better to define a ranking system, and then see who fits there. Not the other way round. Such as assigning points to races, ratio between entries and results, whatever. That is how they do it in boxing and cycling.

He would surely be high up there however you define the rankings, but his ITU career was not that good. His win ratio, or even his podium ratio was very low. You can see his stats here: https://wts.triathlon.org/athletes/profile/5692 26 races, 2 wins, 6 podiums. At Beijing, Gomez was injured. That particular year I think he won all races except Beijing.

It's so hard to compare across eras....but gun to the head, I need someone to win me a race against all the GOATs in their prime, I'm going with Jan.

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“The answer is hard work. What are you doing on Christmas Eve? Are you riding your bike? January 1st – are you riding your bike?”- Lance Armstrong

Not even close to Mark Allan at Long Course, not even close to either Brownlee or Gomez at Short course = Not the GOAT.

Yes

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Matt

Jan is the best of all time...for now.

Brownlee has time (6.5 years younger than Frodo) to change that. Brownlee has all of the short course accolades required to surpass Jan, if Jan retires and Brownlee focuses on long course.

If you rate every distance with equal value than he is.

I'm not a fan and can't explain why but unlike blind supporters i can step back and look at facts and he is arguably the greatest across all distances given the speed he has done them.

If you take the speed element (time) out than no, its still Mark Allen or Dave Scott.

If Brownlee comes back to win a few and set a kona record my view would change. He has a better short course resume.

Personally, for GOAT, total number of wins need be considered and Mark had 6 and as you say he had no chance at 70.3 or Olympic. I was thinking of Jan’s place and what I came up with was Jan is the most complete triathlete of all time, He is also the most gifted Ironman and maybe 70.3 athlete.

For me it’s kinda the same as my basketball argument. I’d put Jordan as the GOAT with LBJ being most talented/complete.

Maybe one would consider this a cop out but I think they are distinct.

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Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

agree with you there...

i think brownlee and gomez have a chance to take on that title...let's see what happens when alistair really takes on the challenge...

for now, i think grip is my pick...he was pretty unbeatable during his career (minus those few races he didn't beat dave)

You need to think back through the history of triathlon Dev.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I think it is not an ITU race any longer but was in 2008 (I realize that was not the point)

Agree... and to answer the original thread question... no.

There is only one way we can ever do this subjectively. Need some way to assign points to major races and then factor in past and present as there was no Olympics back in the day.

That being said, I do not think he is the greatest of all times yet but he is very close and in the next 1-2 years I think he can achieve that status.

he's shown he can win at itu race, olympic competition (generally best in the world), 70.3 distance, and the iron distance. it's pretty incredible. how many people have done this?

macca and crowie are close, but no olympic medal. brownlee and gomez are missing kona medal (but are still young).

course records, don't mean crap. jan said it himself. conditions, race dynamics, etc dictate that. if course records really mattered they would time trial the kona start.

hard to say who's the greatest of all time. i think we all have such short term memory. crowie was pretty incredible, macca was pretty incredible too.

but lets be real, you're talking greatest MALE. ever heard of chrissy wellington, i heard she was pretty decent.