For sure i can tell no new sc for 2020

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

Is call that age - not the bike

I find this extremely hard to believe.

Why do you think this?

I have it on relatively good (direct) sources that the contrary is true...

Will all just be hearsay until release though.
But if Trek miss another year when the competition has moved on in features and matching aero then its gonna lose more customers.

Cervelo - already released 2 new options
Scott - due likely for Frankfurt
Canyon - July-Oct but heard poss delays there
BMC- already released
Argon etc.

If trek don't release by Kona then they'll miss another year of conversions.
I know I got fed up waiting for them already.
And whether they realise it or not there is brand loyalty regarding tt/road bikes also.

By features, you mean those silly disc brakes?

"Matching aero"... what's that?

Trek cut way back on their TT/Tri offerings a few years back. Just had a look at their website and a quite well equipped superbike is only $3800. Hard to beat that deal.

First, brakes stop wheels, tires stop bikes. There is so much discussion about the braking power of rims v discs but they are just one part of the equation. (Road conditions, body weight and center of gravity count as well.)

I have plain old Ultegra rim brakes with Shimano pads and I have never been left wanting for braking power in dry conditions. I've scared the crap out of myself, sure, but I would have done that with any brake. It was a function of my speed and decision when to brake rather than the actual braking power.

In wet conditions, I will grant you that there might be an improvement in braking using discs, but that depends on the slickness of roads, gravel and grit, etc. as well. I haven't ridden discs, so couldn't tell you for sure.

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Agree on SC. It’s a surprisingly inexpensive bike from the most reputable manufacturer that tests about as good as anything. I could afford a new bike but I don’t see the point in replacing my speed concept.

Features = disc brakes, better adjustability, better travel breakdown, better bottom bracket.

Matching aero being the P5 and SC are the benchmark. It appears P5x, P5D and P3x have actually matched or overtaken this status.
The other brands tbc.

The current Trek SC is still amongst top aero, but with other compromises/outdated features imo. And even more so this year regarding disc brakes whether you chose to acknowledge this or not.

I had the same opinion as you until I rode hydraulic disc brakes.....

Why compromise over your safety/take additional risk?

Let's face it, carbon rim braking sucks, but it will take a ride on hydraulic discs for you to realise this even more so.

Whether you drive your car fast or slow, would you like the best braking available or not?
Granted our bikes don't experience the same external circumstances but there are times and requirements be it infrequently where braking is important.

Disc brakes are the future, heck they've even overtaken electronic shifting and will have eradicated the rim braking on all new bikes before mechanical shifting.
Now electronic shifting is still a nice to have, but disc braking is an additional safety feature which I fail to see how so many can ignore.

Sure you can absolutely say they are not needed for my tt bike, and I do hope that continues but hey, go ride a hydraulic disc brake bike and then consider the improved performance and reduce risk benefits.

If you ride in the hills or in wet then they're basically mandatory in my opinion.

If you are buying a bike now and want some resale value then you're short sighted not to acknowledge this requirement.

If you're buying a bike and want the best braking performance for what is a hobby and to reduce your potential risk then again they're basically mandatory.

Sure you can wait another year or two till 80-90% of bike sales are disc, but by then your 1-2 year old bike will have much lower resale value.
Hey, maybe its 2-3 years or more and you get lucky.
Hey, maybe you wont need the best braking performance on the road for a given scenario.

I lean on the other side of the fence.

Did you see my post regarding braking power and safety? Even old crappy brakes exceed the power you need to do a forward flip in a panic stop.

Are you sure that the braking force actually lifted the rear wheel on your old-school Records? It seems like a lot of cases of going over the handlebars when braking with an unfamiliar setup are a result of the rider not bracing their arms adequately against the braking forces, not the bike actually going end-over from braking forces. It takes a pretty strong grip even with very powerful brakes to actually lift the rear wheel, and the process tends to be gradual, not sudden. I've got multiple bikes set up right now with old Record-esque single-pivot calipers, with R55C4 brake pads and compressionless housing, and under most conditions it takes a decently firm grip on the levers to even skid the rear tire. I've never tried producing maximal braking power with them, but I wouldn't be surprised if I couldn't.


In the rain, discs do modulate better than rim brakes, since the higher forces at the braking surface clear it better.

But in the dry, I haven't found discs to brake tangibly better than a quality rim-brake setup.

From the people here at HQ Trek EU :-)

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

I hope your joking.
That may work at 10kph, but try coming down a mountain at 50kph and need to slow in a controlled fashion as quick as possible...

Do you remember the days of cars without abs braking?

When we could brake, lock up wheels but not slow down much or quick enough.

Then abs braking came along, and braking distances were dramatically reduced.

This is the exact same thing with rim vs disc braking.


Sure you can lock up a wheel slamming on your rim brake, but that's not the goal as you will lose control or veer off line/the road.
The goal is to modulate your braking to slow down as controlled and fast as possible. This is what disc braking excels at.

If you think rim braking on carbon wheels is sufficient then good for you.

I get the rim brake argument, but if you think your rim brakes will slow you down as fast as disc then you are mistaken.
If you are happy with the extra metre, 5 or whatever then that's your prerogative.

I'm done on this point as we are all relaying our own opinions so to each their own.

Perhaps trek EU are behind Trek USA again so 😉

Wont affect me but I would like to think the latter for Trek sake.

Agreed, I've had my eye on that Cube for a few years now already but can't find any aero tests on it.. Really curious though as it seems like a really well designed bike. And Swiss Side's support should make it a really competitive one too.

It's easy and very sudden... once the rear wheel leaves the ground it's over. CG is too high and too far forward. These people are not preparing by hanging off the back and bracing with their arms. Like I said, panic stop. You need to stop in a hurry and you grab the brakes hard, and next thing you know your head is diving towards the pavement. And if traction is poor and and the front wheel locks, that's another good way to eat it.

Discs are slower (extra weight, worse aero, dragging pads), cost more, and need more maintenance. On the plus side you have a nicer braking feel, more comfort on long descents, and better performance vs carbon rims in the rain. That doesn't add up to "everyone needs to have them" in my book. Especially on a TT bike.

What are you talking about?! When did bikes get ABS? Race cars are faster without ABS, since the main advantage of it is for people who don't know how to apply brakes (which is most drivers).

Martin was already getting beaten whilst still on the Shiv at Quickstep.

If you really want to use pros success as a determining factor how about Kona wins ?

Canyon Speedmax has been rather good

When the rear wheel is lifted by the extremeness of braking deceleration, it's necessarily the case that the rider's arms were adequately-braced, because those arms are the conduit through which the rider's inertia lifts the rear wheel by pushing on the upper part of the front of the bike.

If the arms aren't adequately-braced and the rear wheel goes upwards, it goes upwards because the rider slid forward and slammed into the front of the bike, not because over-maximal braking was achieved.

In other words, a rider being able to "go over the bars" as a result of poor braking execution does not necessarily imply that the brakes can slow the bike+rider as quickly as a better brake when both are used with good execution. You might go over the bars either way in a sloppy panic stop, but that doesn't demonstrated anything about how quickly you'd be able to stop in a controlled stop.

Yep something to validate that its is up there with the best performing bikes would be nice but it seems rare enough that not many aerotesters have been able to compare it.

At the moment it sort of makes the speed concept a safer buy.

I have owned both generation of SCs and currently still ride a second gen SC. I really like it and its super fast. I don't love how the cockpit breaks down for travel and if my fitter wants to toy with things I need different stems/spacers/etc and it takes time to fiddle with the front ends adjustability.

I've not owned a QR but I've read/heard that they're nice bike to travel with. simple to work on and break down.. I travel with my SC but sometimes I wished it were a little easier to pull the front apart/put it back together and the brakes can be a little fiddly sometimes. It's fast though and amazing once its together and you have good fit on it.

When you travel with the SC and have to break down the front end, does that require you to disconnect the cables from both brake calipers? Or is it enough slack to just release the little triangle cable clamp thing from between the brake arms?

There's enough slack and I don't have to remove the cables from the calipers... that would be a major pain.

I also thankfully run etap... another cable I don't have to fiddle with.

I've owned both, a 2018 PR Six Disc and now a 2018 Trek Speed Concept. Hands down the speed concept is better.

People are getting boners about disc brakes but they're not really all that great. I had a list of issues with 3 of my QR bikes. So far, 0 with the Speed concept.

Thanks everyone for the great insight and feedback... I went with the Trek SC with Zipp 404 Firecrest.

Welcome to The Machine

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"They know f_ck-all over at Slowtwitch"
- Lionel Sanders