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Re: 1 18yo keeps over 600k kids home from school [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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chaparral wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
Guffaw wrote:
This is crazy. Colorado has some of the most liberal gun ownership laws around. Aren't the teachers packing? This should be the SAFEST place on earth.

I detect a little sarcasm here.

But there have been recent stories about some of the sheriffs in Colorado who are saying they'll go to jail rather than enforcing a new law. The law says something to the effect that if you've got someone who is a threat to themselves or to others, their guns can be taken away. Sounds like a reasonable idea.

"Known as the "Extreme Risk Protection Order," the law will allow a family member, a roommate or law enforcement to petition a judge to temporarily seize a person's firearms if they are deemed a risk to themselves or others."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/12/us/colorado-red-flag-gun-laws/index.html


Reasonable maybe, but potentially unconstitutional which is where the issue lies. The problem is who gets to decide what is a risk? If someone has a crazy uncle who is stockpiling for Armageddon, and goes to petition a liberal judge,against gun ownership, is that enough to remove the guns?

The other issue is if everything is kosher from above, it places a big risk on the officers going in to try to forcefully take the guns from the person.


I don't think Sheriffs are the ones who get to decide what is constitutional and what is not. I don't know the what Colorado's constitution says, but I am willing to bet it is not Sheriffs.

Sounds a lot like sanctuary city laws to me.

I don't agree with sheriffs ignoring this law, but I do think there should be a hold on this law until the constitutionality can be determined. It should also be noted that this law was pushed through while ignoring the voters. Another example of elections have consequences. But that doesn't make it right.
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Re: 1 18yo keeps over 600k kids home from school [velocomp] [ In reply to ]
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velocomp wrote:
chaparral wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
Guffaw wrote:
This is crazy. Colorado has some of the most liberal gun ownership laws around. Aren't the teachers packing? This should be the SAFEST place on earth.

I detect a little sarcasm here.

But there have been recent stories about some of the sheriffs in Colorado who are saying they'll go to jail rather than enforcing a new law. The law says something to the effect that if you've got someone who is a threat to themselves or to others, their guns can be taken away. Sounds like a reasonable idea.

"Known as the "Extreme Risk Protection Order," the law will allow a family member, a roommate or law enforcement to petition a judge to temporarily seize a person's firearms if they are deemed a risk to themselves or others."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/12/us/colorado-red-flag-gun-laws/index.html


Reasonable maybe, but potentially unconstitutional which is where the issue lies. The problem is who gets to decide what is a risk? If someone has a crazy uncle who is stockpiling for Armageddon, and goes to petition a liberal judge,against gun ownership, is that enough to remove the guns?

The other issue is if everything is kosher from above, it places a big risk on the officers going in to try to forcefully take the guns from the person.


I don't think Sheriffs are the ones who get to decide what is constitutional and what is not. I don't know the what Colorado's constitution says, but I am willing to bet it is not Sheriffs.


Sounds a lot like sanctuary city laws to me.

I don't agree with sheriffs ignoring this law, but I do think there should be a hold on this law until the constitutionality can be determined. It should also be noted that this law was pushed through while ignoring the voters. Another example of elections have consequences. But that doesn't make it right.

What state law are sanctuary cities ignoring because it is unconstitutional? I am pretty sure that is federal law and states and cities are under no constitutional obligation to enforce federal law. The state can't stop the federal government from enforcing the federal law and they can't make a law that contradicts federal law, but they don't have to enforce the law.

Yes, the law can be put on hold while it is determined to be constitutional, but that is not for Sheriffs to decide. I assume Colorado has an actual system to determine that, with some sort of experts sitting in judgement possibly.
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Re: 1 18yo keeps over 600k kids home from school [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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chaparral wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
Guffaw wrote:
This is crazy. Colorado has some of the most liberal gun ownership laws around. Aren't the teachers packing? This should be the SAFEST place on earth.

I detect a little sarcasm here.

But there have been recent stories about some of the sheriffs in Colorado who are saying they'll go to jail rather than enforcing a new law. The law says something to the effect that if you've got someone who is a threat to themselves or to others, their guns can be taken away. Sounds like a reasonable idea.

"Known as the "Extreme Risk Protection Order," the law will allow a family member, a roommate or law enforcement to petition a judge to temporarily seize a person's firearms if they are deemed a risk to themselves or others."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/12/us/colorado-red-flag-gun-laws/index.html


Reasonable maybe, but potentially unconstitutional which is where the issue lies. The problem is who gets to decide what is a risk? If someone has a crazy uncle who is stockpiling for Armageddon, and goes to petition a liberal judge,against gun ownership, is that enough to remove the guns?

The other issue is if everything is kosher from above, it places a big risk on the officers going in to try to forcefully take the guns from the person.

I don't think Sheriffs are the ones who get to decide what is constitutional and what is not. I don't know the what Colorado's constitution says, but I am willing to bet it is not Sheriffs.

Which I’m pretty sure all the Sheriffs, who don’t want to enforce this, have said they are willing to go to jail if they don’t enforce it so what is the issue?

There is a huge gap in Colorado. You have very liberal boulder/Denver, and very rural areas. The rural areas voted like everyone else on the amendment, if the sheriff decides it’s in his own county’s best interest, and willing to go to jail for it that is their prerogative.
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Re: 1 18yo keeps over 600k kids home from school [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
...she was either pure evil or seriously mentally disturbed.

The two are not mutually exclusive. I'd say they go hand in hand.

War is god
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Re: 1 18yo keeps over 600k kids home from school [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
In Thunder Bay Ontario Hammerskjold highschool has been closed at least half a dozen times in the last few months. Bomb threats and gun threats. They are getting frustrated.


Sounds like they have arrested 2 people. Been very frustrating for people involved for sure.
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Re: 1 18yo keeps over 600k kids home from school [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Grant.Reuter wrote:
if the sheriff decides it’s in his own county’s best interest, and willing to go to jail for it that is their prerogative.


Well then you get new sheriffs who follow the law instead of creating their own law. Not sure what your point is, other than an affirmation of free will.
Last edited by: trail: Apr 18, 19 19:29
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Re: 1 18yo keeps over 600k kids home from school [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
if the sheriff decides it’s in his own county’s best interest, and willing to go to jail for it that is their prerogative.


Well then you get new sheriffs who follow the law instead of creating their own law. Not sure what your point is, other than an affirmation of free will.

Actually since Sheriffs are usually voted into office, it will be interesting to see if they will vote in Sheriffs that would follow this law. There are good red flag laws and bad red flag laws. This one has questions. In this case basically Denver and Boulder are pushing the state in their desired direction. But many (El Paso, Weld, and many other rural counties) are very upset about this and support the Sheriffs and law enforcement against this.
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Re: 1 18yo keeps over 600k kids home from school [velocomp] [ In reply to ]
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velocomp wrote:
trail wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
if the sheriff decides it’s in his own county’s best interest, and willing to go to jail for it that is their prerogative.


Well then you get new sheriffs who follow the law instead of creating their own law. Not sure what your point is, other than an affirmation of free will.

Actually since Sheriffs are usually voted into office, it will be interesting to see if they will vote in Sheriffs that would follow this law. There are good red flag laws and bad red flag laws. This one has questions. In this case basically Denver and Boulder are pushing the state in their desired direction. But many (El Paso, Weld, and many other rural counties) are very upset about this and support the Sheriffs and law enforcement against this.

I’m curious what you feel the questions are and how you would draft it differently to make it what you consider a good one. I sit right on the county line between counties with totally different reactions to this - so it’s been interesting to watch.
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Re: 1 18yo keeps over 600k kids home from school [Moonrocket] [ In reply to ]
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Moonrocket wrote:
velocomp wrote:
trail wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
if the sheriff decides it’s in his own county’s best interest, and willing to go to jail for it that is their prerogative.


Well then you get new sheriffs who follow the law instead of creating their own law. Not sure what your point is, other than an affirmation of free will.

Actually since Sheriffs are usually voted into office, it will be interesting to see if they will vote in Sheriffs that would follow this law. There are good red flag laws and bad red flag laws. This one has questions. In this case basically Denver and Boulder are pushing the state in their desired direction. But many (El Paso, Weld, and many other rural counties) are very upset about this and support the Sheriffs and law enforcement against this.

I’m curious what you feel the questions are and how you would draft it differently to make it what you consider a good one. I sit right on the county line between counties with totally different reactions to this - so it’s been interesting to watch.

The biggest issue with the law is due process, and lack of penalties for false claims.
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