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School me on Whoop
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So what does this do more or better than the Garmin? Is the $18/month fee worth it?
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Re: School me on Whoop [dalava] [ In reply to ]
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i'm also curious about whoop. total different approach (basically time-series data of quantified recovery) but people seem to swear by it (including pro cyclists and mtbers, total badasses like kate courtney and lawson craddock). I have my Garmin and i use an HRV app, but maybe this would give a whole new quantum of data
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Re: School me on Whoop [devolikewhoa83] [ In reply to ]
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devolikewhoa83 wrote:
i'm also curious about whoop. total different approach (basically time-series data of quantified recovery) but people seem to swear by it (including pro cyclists and mtbers, total badasses like kate courtney and lawson craddock). I have my Garmin and i use an HRV app, but maybe this would give a whole new quantum of data

You honestly think those "badasses" aren't being compensated for their "opinion"?
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Re: School me on Whoop [Brad Fio] [ In reply to ]
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They can be, but some people like to believe that there are certain athletes who can be trusted more to only take money where they feel the product is useful. I tend to be one of those people

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Last edited by: ChasingPB: Feb 27, 19 7:46
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Re: School me on Whoop [devolikewhoa83] [ In reply to ]
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devolikewhoa83 wrote:
i'm also curious about whoop. total different approach (basically time-series data of quantified recovery) but people seem to swear by it (including pro cyclists and mtbers, total badasses like kate courtney and lawson craddock). I have my Garmin and i use an HRV app, but maybe this would give a whole new quantum of data

It looks like they are using an optical HR sensor to record their metrics....I'd be interested in hearing why they went that route vs a more accurate/reliable chest strap.


"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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Re: School me on Whoop [Brad Fio] [ In reply to ]
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Brad Fio wrote:
devolikewhoa83 wrote:
i'm also curious about whoop. total different approach (basically time-series data of quantified recovery) but people seem to swear by it (including pro cyclists and mtbers, total badasses like kate courtney and lawson craddock). I have my Garmin and i use an HRV app, but maybe this would give a whole new quantum of data


You honestly think those "badasses" aren't being compensated for their "opinion"?


Um of course. but i don't see how it necessarily matters. Kate Courtney for example, they published a use case showing all of her data for 2018 leading up to her MTB world championship. Yes these athletes are sponsored but they don't waste their time using something unless they find it helpful, and they will use whatever they find helpful because they want to win. She clearly used it, for all of 2018. Does that mean YOU will find it helpful? Certainly not, there are pro cyclists who refuse to even use powermeters because they prefer to train and recover by feel, just like there are athletes and teams who refuse to use their sponsor's product and instead use whichever one they want (hence the mystery wheels, cranks, bikes, tires, PMs, with the label removed, etc. that are always popping up in pro race photos).

But no, you can't just dismiss it by being like "oh they are sponsored", you need to look at the evidence and think critically and decide whether you think it would work for you.

EDIT: I just think that what they are showing for these athletes is qualitatively different than a statement on the website that says "I USE IT IT"S GREAT!" They have published in depth explanations and reviews of the use case, not just an opinion from a talking head (not like Sportlegs or whatever--lol remember those ads?)
Last edited by: devolikewhoa83: Feb 27, 19 7:49
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Re: School me on Whoop [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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You're supposed to wear the Whoop at all times

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
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Re: School me on Whoop [dalava] [ In reply to ]
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I can offer a small bit of insight, but have only been using it for 3 months now, and not in any heavy training cycles with it (recovering from MCL tear).

I learned about this device through the US military special forces indoc training. They have been moving toward making a special forces operator into more of an athlete type (mirroring what NFL teams are doing). a big piece of that is the human performance - and recovery. During training, the instructors use all types of technology to monitor their students, mainly to see how hard to push before a breaking point. The whoop device is currently being used on all air force basic recruits, and slowly filtering into the units across the force. From their perspective, monitoring recovery from hearing an 18 year telling you the are good to go is not as reliable as looking at heart rate variability and sleep statistics. If someone tells you they can go out and perform one day, the team of professionals (PTs, OTs, strength coaches, etc) can hold you back if your numbers are showing you are prone to injury.

All that said, as an amateur athlete, I don't see it doing anything I can't do myself by just knowing how my body feels. I'll probably use it for one race build through the summer/fall to see if it is something that is useful. But I'm not competing for a podium slot. If you're trying for Kona slots, or podiums, it would probably give you numbers to validate what you feel as you prepare for full peak recovery before a race. i.e. it may help you set up training blocks more effectively so you can be at full capacity come race day. If you know how to interpret your own body, it may not give you something you don't already know.

As for accuracy, it is pretty spot on in the long haul (when compared to an activity where I am using my chest strap). The only difference I see is slight spikes in the heart rate numbers that aren't shown on the chest strap, but I assume that may be an issue with the band sliding or getting rolled over (has a tendency to do that).

For 18/month, why not try it for your next race build. I think its either a 6 or 12 month commitment, so you can see how it works for you and if you need it. If you have any other questions on it, I can try to answer based off my experiences with it.
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Re: School me on Whoop [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
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ChasingPB wrote:
You're supposed to wear the Whoop at all times

I wonder what the Whoop tracker is capturing more than others, e.g. Garmin or Apple Watch.
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Re: School me on Whoop [Spudzj6] [ In reply to ]
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It captures a lot of good data, not all of which seem to be readily viewable to the user. Though it does provide you to see everything that would be pertinent to know and then some. They seem to focus on making the data useable to an athlete or coach rather than just throwing everything out there. The most important things to me are the sleep tracking and the relationship between HRV and RHR which it samples during your last Slow Wave cycle of sleep during the night I believe. The number of variables that go into endurance training and how the body reacts is enormous so I get why they are trying to take control of the analyzing themselves.

I’ve been using it for a little over 6 months now with a few Ironman builds and races in there and setbacks with getting sick. It’s been very interesting to watch how things change with travel, diet changes, altitude, tapering, additional work/life stresses, and building training through a block.

I’m not sponsored by them and never bothered to ask, but I’ll be continuing to use it for the foreseeable future. The longer I use it, the more I am learning to actually use it to adjust training rather than just another “interesting to know” type of tool.

Adam Feigh
Christian, Dad, Nurse, Professional Triathlete
Feighathlon.com
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Re: School me on Whoop [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
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dalava wrote:
So what does this do more or better than the Garmin?



"That which gets measured gets improved." For me, this is the value of Whoop. I use it to measure sleep and recovery performance. Every morning Whoop reports my sleep performance, resting HR, HRV, and an aggregate "Recovery" score. If I don't get adequate sleep, the numbers are there staring me in the face. I can see the benefit of avoiding alcohol and caffeine later in the day. I like the data and this is one time where "chasing the data" is a good thing with no downside that I can think of.


ChasingPB wrote:
You're supposed to wear the Whoop at all times


It is designed to be worn all the time, but I now only wear mine before I go sleep to capture the recovery metrics. During the day, Whoop measures "Strain" as a cyclist I already have a device that captures "Strain" - my bikes power meter. I feel like the "Strain" measurement is targeted to athletes/coaches that engage in sports, e.g. basketball, where "Strain" is not otherwise measurable.

Race Director, Velo Club La Grange (http://www.lagrange.org)
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
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Re: School me on Whoop [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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I believe not wearing it during the day would effect your recovery score. Since strain is factored into your sleep need which is a factor of the score.

I also find the strain metric to be helpful in determining how active I am at work on any given day which I can correlate to my workout performances. Also to tell how long it takes for my body to calm down after bigger efforts.

Seeing the effect of caffeine, alcohol, diet, environment, and daily habits on sleep performance has been one of the most useful aspects so far

Adam Feigh
Christian, Dad, Nurse, Professional Triathlete
Feighathlon.com
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Re: School me on Whoop [Feighathlon] [ In reply to ]
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This makes sense.

And, maybe i am advocating a luddite training concept but i am very skeptical that a power meter gives you every measure of "strain" that you need. It tells you the output, but it doesn't tell you how much input was required in order to generate it. I for one can say definitively that when i do the same ride, same average power on a very hot day vs. a cooler day my heart rate is higher and my recovery is longer (at least in the sense that i feel worse the next day), regardless of how much i drink during or afterwards. Same thing with running. If WHoop is supposed to quantify your strain for the purposes of prescribing your recovery, then this seems like literally exactly the kind of thing you want it to be picking up.
Last edited by: devolikewhoa83: Feb 27, 19 11:32
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