Uh, ripple did.

And sprinting is not silliness, it's an aspect of competition. Would you sprint for 10th if it paid out 25 deep? Would you sprint for a city limit sign with no pay out? Are either of those "risky"?

Do either of those have anything to do with doping?

The rational train of thought left the track with his initial assertion.

Ha, add me to the list.

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No, it doesn't.

I've seen enough hyper competitive cyclists whose goal is to beat ONE PARTICULAR PERSON. Seriously. They may have no aspirations of winning, but Joe Schmo beat them in the XYZ series last year for 38th place, and this year they are going to do whatever it takes to beat Joe! And Joe doesn't even know they are racing each other.

The drugs will give you a boost that no amount of training will be able to provide. Most of these guys are probably training 500hrs/yr anyway, and bumping that to 1000 might yield a couple %. But they can go on the juice and get 10%+. And it's easy to morally rationalize in our culture, where taking drugs for everything is common place.

At the risk of wading back in, I said "risks", I did not say sprinting. Sprinting is an aspect of competition. Doing dumb shit, like leaving your line, trying to find a hole that's not there, bumping handlebars, crossing double-yellow, to move from 20th to 10th in a field sprint to get a $25 payout is silliness and stupidity.

What does it have to do with doping? It's a "win at all costs" mentality. Win what? Win over who? Win money? Win AG? Win trip to worlds? Who knows, but there's a real problem in adult competitive sports with needing to win at all costs. If that means putting the father of 2 next to you in the hospital because you needed to sprint for 10th place, or means find Dr. Shady who'll give you EPO treatment, it's a sick mentality. Often for prizes or recognition that is inconsequential in the grand scheme of life.

If you don't understand that segue, we're at a dead end.

Ripple. He says that both are lumped into a category he calls "trying to win at all costs" and part of the same "sick mentality." I disagree. I don't think there's much of an equivalency.

You equated sprint with risks. You equated "moving up in a sprint" as a risk that was part of the same mentality as doping.

That's absurd. You clearly know little about cycling, or sport/competition altogether, if that's your mindset.

There's nothing to understand. You're talking from an irrational perspective of conjecture and ignorance.

There's a reason the guys in the pro Pelton don't do dumb things in the field sprint when they're 20 back. Because it doesn't matter. They're pros. They'd consider someone who did a fucking silly moron.

If you want to say being a dumbass and doping are not equivalent I can buy that. But I referenced stupidity. Which doping is, calculated stupidity to win at all costs over someone or something. Which again, was a simple piggyback on Bones about how guys will go to great lengths for shit as inconsequential as a stupid masters race.

Who can forget the defunct IM 70.3 Miami having a IV drip company as a sponsor?

I believe EPO is cheaper in Latin American countries? Someone chime in here

Different outcomes. If a doper beats me I lose, get less prizes, etc. But still drive home whole and healthy. I don't like dopers winning and it makes me unhappy. But, if somebody "breaks etiquette" by sprinting for places out of the money, makes a sketchy move, takes me out and sends me to the hospital and breaks my carbon race bike and wheels, from my POV at the time it's WAY worse. I'm f'd up physically, and out maybe several thousand dollars in broken bike parts.

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Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

Yes. And mostly different people. I can't think of any amateur/masters dopers I've raced with who'd be considered "dangerous riders." They were skilled riders. Many of them "nice guys."

I've never seen this many people tested in the same race, not even at nationals or worlds. The most I've seen tested out of one group is two. Like the time that Meeker and I got tested together after the 50-54 nationals RR in Bend. Good times... When I say same race, I don't mean same event day, but same race and category.

Anyway, I'd love hear the real story, but I can only imagine that somebody dropped a dime on these particular guys and Race Clean showed up with their name already written down on their clip board.

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Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

The payout at the Miami race is better than nationals and worlds! All kidding aside, It would not surprise me if you got positive test results at every single masters race, if every athlete was tested according to the current WADA code.