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Ankle injury and running
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I’ve been a very upright runner and over the past several months have been trying to change my posture to have a more forward lean. Has anyone ever caused an ankle impingement from trying to change your posture? I haven’t run in a week but I have been on the bike and the front of my ankle is swollen. I have an appt with a PT tomorrow for an evaluation.
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Re: Ankle injury and running [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]
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Don’t try to change your running form, let it be whatever is natural to you.
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Re: Ankle injury and running [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]
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Why are you trying to change? Are you experiencing an unusually high number of injuries with your current/natural form? If so, have you ruled out other potential causes such as using the wrong kind of shoes, ramping up your training too quickly, etc?

Making changes to your natural form is a pretty risky thing. I did a big shift about 12 years ago, but in my case it was because I was a bad heel striker (think heavy heel strike, low cadence, overstriding, pretty messy) and was both slow and getting a lot of injuries. I made a shift to more of a midfoot strike with shorter strides and higher cadence, but I did it over a long period of time, with input from a physio who specialised in gait analysis and helped with things like picking the right shoes, some stretches and exercises to help me adapt, and regular check ups to see how my legs were coping. Change was definitely beneficial, I am a lot less injury prone and my legs feel a lot less beat up from running, but I would say it took me 6 months before I was able to train and race at the level/intensity I was doing before I started the changes. And if I'd tried to do it quicker and/or without the input of somebody who knew what they were doing and could tell me to back off, I think I'd have almost certainly injured myself.
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Re: Ankle injury and running [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]
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Depends on how much you change it, how you are getting that lean, and volume you apply the change to.
I advise my athletes if the make a change in form, gradually apply it over time.
Week 1, 10% of volume - like for a run, only use the new form for 10% of the run and then for the rest don't focus on it.
Week 2, 25%
Week 3, 75%
Week 4, all workouts

If you change it and force 100% right off the bat, you're body may not like it.

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
Sample 70.3/140.6 Training Plans
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Re: Ankle injury and running [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]
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There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve your form. If you are experiencing impingment at the ankle I would say stop your current method. The best and most efficient way to find your best form is to incorporate form drills and strides. Search on you tube there are plenty of videos out there.

I use drills and strides as prescription for the athletes I work with. For some I have them do them as part of a warm up before every single run they do. For most I have them incorporate the drills into one run per week. Young runners around the world learn how to run with good efficient form for their body through daily drills. There is no reason an older runner can’t do the same. Do the drill properly and your running form will follow.

Good luck with the PT. You should be able to undue that impingement fairly quickly.

Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed
Running Shoe Insight

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Re: Ankle injury and running [SDJ] [ In reply to ]
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I'm working on run form and wanted to comment on forward lean in general.

First off, priority should be to run aligned with great posture, be straight in-line and what they call tall. My focus is to lead with the pelvis actually, - because all "real" movement starts there!

People see a forward torso angle on Eliud and think yep that's how you do it. Rough calcs if you take a 10mm drop shoe and calculate effective lean angle, I get around 3 degrees from the shoe alone. What is the actual degree of lean?

I just looked at the 100M sprinters - who use a flat shoe and going all out - no or little forward lean at full, blazing speed & turnover.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://www.jagersport.com/
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Re: Ankle injury and running [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]
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All very good answers. Thank you. I wanted to make the change to get faster. My run has been my limiter in racing - especially longer distances like a 13.1. I believe I overdid the forward lean and had some impingement. I also had other problems like high arched shoes with a flatter foot which forced me to get more of a forefoot strike along with a severe underpronation. This lead to peroneal tendinitis. Therefore the end result was to use the shoes I just bought (On Cloudflow) with a wedge to keep the weight centered or slightly overpronated to keep the pressure off the tendon.

I like the idea about focusing on form with drills. That may be the best place to start then work into the gradual distance increases.
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Re: Ankle injury and running [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]
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Back off your form change until your foot problems are gone. Once you are pain free then start with the basics. Your thinking is correct, address your form to get faster. Let drills and strides be your form guide. One post here is talking about the lean of Eliud Kipchoge. I get the pleasure of seeing him live once or twice a year. Already planned once this year. What we see is the end result. His upper body is very quiet, his turn over is very high and his stride length is very long. He spends very little time on the ground. Watch training videos of him from his home and you’ll see every run starts with a warm up set of drills. I like to give the athletes I work with a visual for their drills. I learned that from a coach of mine years ago. So I suggest watch Eliud over and over. When you do your strides picture in your mind floating like Eliud. You see improvements very quickly if you start with basics like this.

Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed
Running Shoe Insight

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Re: Ankle injury and running [SDJ] [ In reply to ]
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Eluid spits a lot of gravel out the back. What I mean by that is it's all from center-line or toe-line rearward drive. And if he had a stone stuck in his shoe, you'd get it in the face. What a kick.

Sure would be nice to have his quad & hip flexor flexibility, OMG. Doesn't hurt that he is not moving any excess bulk either.

He maximizes his strides down the full body line, almost looks like a swimmer.
As you have said above it's an end-result and he is going 2x the speed of (me).

I have to say that the Kenyan coach Timo Limo has the world's best run stride. Not sure on race results etc, but form wise, it's the best I've seen.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://www.jagersport.com/
Last edited by: SharkFM: Jan 22, 19 19:06
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Re: Ankle injury and running [SDJ] [ In reply to ]
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I did watch Eliud Kipchoge before running as you (Dave) suggested.


What I wanted to duplicate is his shoulder /arm drive off the propulsive forefoot. When I did that I discovered something quite profound about the run "stroke". It is very much like swimming or say a boxer delivering a punch from the lower body.


If you look at Eluid's hands they are in a very specific movement pattern and location. His lower to upper body timing is impeccable and very precise. He's also quite symmetrical but that isn't as important as the precision of his timing.


I replicated and "discovered" this movement while going very slow - 4mph on the treadmill. I then slowly brought the speed up over the course of my 30 min run to full speed. I was able to maintain that hand to forefoot timing. I doing so, that is all I felt - my hand and forefoot - nothing else. I got up to 8 mph and what was striking was my heart rate, breathing rate were very low for that speed.


All good runners do this btw, Eluid due to his size and precision is better than most.





Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://www.jagersport.com/
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Re: Ankle injury and running [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]
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"I’ve been a very upright runner and over the past several months have been trying to change my posture to have a more forward lean. Has anyone ever caused an ankle impingement from trying to change your posture? I haven’t run in a week but I have been on the bike and the front of my ankle is swollen. I have an appt with a PT tomorrow for an evaluation."

what do you think leaning forward is??? what does it look like??? what does it do.

Answer. pushing your head forward, it actually looks like this when you run < what it does is jab your ankle well ahead of your load.


Stop learning from the head no one leans. THE WORD LEANS IS ALWAYS WRONG. YOU CAN LEAN and not fall over that's a poor posture.

your physio will likely not have any answers ( guesses and band aids) unless they have seen you run prior fatigued and recently fatigued to see differences. Go back to upright posture. Then get a proper running coach. Although that's like finding a proper tri coach or swim coach. DART TOSS.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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