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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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My big pet peeve on the TriLive feed is that thew official ITU commentators don't know the official rules... Emma Frodeno's comment about the 15seconds being added on if they don't serve a penalty is absolutely wrong, and I can't think of when that was ever the case except with USAT rules... If you fail to serve a penalty, it's a DQ, but for the last decade, the athlete has the right to continue the race (except as mentioned when they are lapped out or pulled for a first runner/last biker scenario, since that's an elimination rather than a DQ) and then appeal at the finish. It takes away from the coverage when they talk out of their arse about rules, since many people watching don't actually know better, and then are shocked with the results (usually for WTS events, there's an official in the TV coverage booth, typically they are there to observe, but I'm sure if the commentators weren't sure and asked, they could get a clarification). It looked like AB just paced Richard Varga for the run knowing that he was DQ'd. Also not sure why they ever announced it was a 15sec penalty. They may have heard the radio call for the infraction, without realizing that it was an auto DQ, and not waited for the second call from the Head Ref to the penalty box to post that it was a DQ.

That being said I am surprised only the two got DQ'd, I saw some solid photos from that first buoy carnage that showed clearly 4 guys on the inside of the buoy (and you could ID most of their numbers from their swimcaps in the photo, they might have all gotten lapped out anyways, but still). To be fair to AB, he tried to make it, he went under the buoy, but went around the inside of the anchor line rather than the outside... I'm not surprised that people got disorientated in that washing machine though, guys were getting nailed, getting stood up, etc. I've not seen that type of carnage in a race since the new contact rules came in last year, with the exception of the ladies race in Superleague Jersey). He clearly payed for having no WTS ranking coming in and getting stuck on that inside end of the pontoon with the riff raff... I don't think either Brownlee was in tip top shape, and while their results read as being a bit washed-up, I assume that if Ali commits to Tokyo, and the two start training together regularly again for ITU, they will be podium threats at any given race.

I also agree with the comments about Vincent Luis, he's a solid medal threat for Tokyo if he can stay healthy. He's always been in the ballpark, and he's shown that he can be a big race performer... I was very impressed by his swim, he led it for 70% of the race, with Varga only leading for small bits and leading out of the water by a body length... Add to the fact that he briefly went down (and tangled up JB as well) on the bike makes it even more impressive.

In terms of Van Riel, I'm not sure if anyone saw his IG post after the race, his dropped chain there with 3km to go was apparently from the elastic band from his shoes in T1 getting bunged up in his rear derailleur causing the chain drop, which is why it took him a solid 30sec to get the chain back on so that he could ride... The development of someone like Van Riel could be critical for guys like Luis and Blummenfelt having a podium shot at Tokyo, those guys, a healthy Schoeman and healthy and fit Brownlees could put a lot of pressure on the Murrays, Molas and Birtwhistles closing a break off the swim (that said, if Mola's swim keeps coming along the way it was at the GF, he might still be able to get on terms)...
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]
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ecce-homo wrote:
"Jonny beat Mola by over a minute at Rio that's not bad for someone who wasn't really focused on the Olympics (The silver medal he got was a nice added bonus as well)"

JB raced the olympics much better than others, including MM, in a race that suited him perfectly. Hats off to him in regards to that feat. But that doesn't make him a top 2 necesarily. Would you rank Henry Schoemann as the world #3 at the time? In my book JB was #4 at the time, behind JG and MM.

"Mola was also well under way to being spanked by Jonny in the GF that year also before things went dramatically wrong at the end (he hasn't recovered his form since) "

No he wasn't. It looked that way, but the reality is that a senior triathlete was not able to pace himself correctly and suffered the brutal laws of nature. Had he not had a brother racing alongside him he would have DNFd. It wasn't like it was a random accident, he raced dumb and payed for it.

"Mola has undoubtedly been the best Oly distance triathlete of the the last two years but before that you wasn't even expecting him to podium if both Brownlee's and Gomez showed up to race fully fit. "

That was many moons ago. Both the performance of JB, AB and JG has declined and MM's has raised. I wasn't debating and all time greatest ranking, but the comment about 2 years ago. Anyhow, MM has beaten JB, AB and JG many times at their peak, specially at sprint distance, were he is arguably one of the best of the last decade if not the best. Here you have a good example with the three of them, two playing home turf, enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBgzMgob5Gw

This is silly, you argued the point that the Brownlee's were not the best 2 years ago even though no one was even close to them at the race that matters (1 minute plus Jonny had over Mola is prety conclusive evidence! Before you even get on to Ali)

No one was arguing that Mola hasn't been the best since.
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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 I've not seen that type of carnage in a race since the new contact rules came in last year, with the exception of the ladies race in Superleague Jersey).

-------

Brings back memories of ITU Tizzy, where it's a 3 lap swim within 750m so that means the 1st turn boy is within likely 65s of the start..IE- no seperation and just mass carnage every year.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World WhaChamps Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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So applying the same smart reasoning Henri Schoeman was the third best thriathlete two years ago. Right? Javier Gomez was probably the worst, as he didn't even get to the start line.
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World WhaChamps Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]
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ecce-homo wrote:
So applying the same smart reasoning Henri Schoeman was the third best thriathlete two years ago. Right? Javier Gomez was probably the worst, as he didn't even get to the start line.

Schoeman finished that year strong, 3rd in the Olympics and winner of the Grand Final (You can argue all you want about the circumstances of him winning that GF of course) you'll get no arguments from me if you want to call him the 3rd best Triathlete of that year though! (He beat Mola twice when it count that year!)
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Tiszy has been a bit more civilized (or rather less uncivilized) the last year or two, but you're right, that was very much like old school tiszy (this year there was carnage like that on the men's bike in tiszy, before they cancelled it with barriers flying at the riders in the epic storm... I remember sitting at the dinner table during the multisport worlds in Denmark, and one of the ITU folks showing us the videos of what was going on the same day over there...)... at least now with the semis and finals formats in Tiszy, the packs are smaller, so it's a bit less of a gongshow...
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World WhaChamps Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Fortunately we have ITU rankings to eliminate speculations.
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
It looked like AB just paced Richard Varga for the run knowing that he was DQ'd....

He definitely dropped back, but he also looked totally cooked after the first lap of the run, so he's still got a good bit to go on his run form at the moment.

Trauma wrote:
In terms of Van Riel, I'm not sure if anyone saw his IG post after the race, his dropped chain there with 3km to go was apparently from the elastic band from his shoes in T1 getting bunged up in his rear derailleur causing the chain drop, which is why it took him a solid 30sec to get the chain back on so that he could ride... The development of someone like Van Riel could be critical for guys like Luis and Blummenfelt having a podium shot at Tokyo, those guys, a healthy Schoeman and healthy and fit Brownlees could put a lot of pressure on the Murrays, Molas and Birtwhistles closing a break off the swim (that said, if Mola's swim keeps coming along the way it was at the GF, he might still be able to get on terms)...

The thing that has really stuck out for me is that while having those bodies in the lead pack will undoubtedly help, I don't think he should fear anyone on the run. That's two grand finals where he has smoked everyone on the last lap and looked to have a lot more in the tank. I could see the Tokyo course playing similar to the GC at the weekend.

I read some interviews in a French running magazine where he said he had been concentrating too much on running (Training with Mekhissi Benabbad et al), and the move to Joel Filliol has really balanced things out. Add the fact he's healthy and doesn't have any personal problems to contend with, I think he is a very dangerous individual for the next few years.
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [Adman] [ In reply to ]
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2 years is a very long time in ITU triathlon. Older guys are right at their prime now, some others on the downward slope, younger guys not even there yet. With the Commonwealth wealth games this year those athletes had a very long season, peaking early and trying to hang in there until the end of season. Olympic Year I assume they will be all trying to peak for the same race.
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Pearson looked close to making the main chase pack. No idea about the bike, but he had a top-10 run. It would be so nice to have a US guy able to finish top-10...I hope he knocks enough off the swim and grows enough on the bike to be able to utilize that run.

Or somehow go to a lab and graft his run onto a Kanute swim/ bike - heck, even a Seth Rider swim/ bike.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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MI_Mumps wrote:
Pearson looked close to making the main chase pack. No idea about the bike, but he had a top-10 run. It would be so nice to have a US guy able to finish top-10...I hope he knocks enough off the swim and grows enough on the bike to be able to utilize that run.

Or somehow go to a lab and graft his run onto a Kanute swim/ bike - heck, even a Seth Rider swim/ bike.

Did he crash in the bike because he was about 5 mins slower than those he came out of the water with, or did he just keep dropping back out of packs.
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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I’d like to know as well. Bad T1 and missed the group, mechanical, crash, etc? He wasn’t exactly a the place in the race that gets lots of TV time...

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [Adman] [ In reply to ]
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Adman wrote:
Trauma wrote:
It looked like AB just paced Richard Varga for the run knowing that he was DQ'd....


He definitely dropped back, but he also looked totally cooked after the first lap of the run, so he's still got a good bit to go on his run form at the moment.

Trauma wrote:
In terms of Van Riel, I'm not sure if anyone saw his IG post after the race, his dropped chain there with 3km to go was apparently from the elastic band from his shoes in T1 getting bunged up in his rear derailleur causing the chain drop, which is why it took him a solid 30sec to get the chain back on so that he could ride... The development of someone like Van Riel could be critical for guys like Luis and Blummenfelt having a podium shot at Tokyo, those guys, a healthy Schoeman and healthy and fit Brownlees could put a lot of pressure on the Murrays, Molas and Birtwhistles closing a break off the swim (that said, if Mola's swim keeps coming along the way it was at the GF, he might still be able to get on terms)...


The thing that has really stuck out for me is that while having those bodies in the lead pack will undoubtedly help, I don't think he should fear anyone on the run. That's two grand finals where he has smoked everyone on the last lap and looked to have a lot more in the tank. I could see the Tokyo course playing similar to the GC at the weekend.

I read some interviews in a French running magazine where he said he had been concentrating too much on running (Training with Mekhissi Benabbad et al), and the move to Joel Filliol has really balanced things out. Add the fact he's healthy and doesn't have any personal problems to contend with, I think he is a very dangerous individual for the next few years.

I have to agree Luis is very strong and would be a very good pick for 2020. On a good day he can outrun Mola. Plus he has the added the benefit that he can swim and bike so can get into the lead pack. It will be interesting to see how the racing develops over 2019. My take on it is that with no AB, and Javier, racing well/regularly in 2017/2018 the lead bike pack has lost some big engines. Previously if you get into a nicely sized working group with AB/JB/JG then there was a very good chance of getting into T2 with enough time on Mola/Murray etc. Now the lead group isn't as motivated/powerful. Plus Mola is swimming better. They peleton seems to be coming together sooner in the bike when the Norway boys then try to attack. Maybe AB is done and will not get his short course speed back but I wouldn't count him out quite yet.
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [newManUK] [ In reply to ]
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For the Record Luis ran 29:44 to Mola's 29:55 in Gold Coast... which goes to show if Mola is on anything less than a stellar day, Luis has a solid shot at outrunning him, and is definitely stronger on the swim, and arguably stronger on the bike (at a minimum far more aggressive)...

It'll be interesting to see if guys like Schilling and Stornes can gain the consistency to get out of the water near the leaders and with 10-15sec on Mola, getting those guys in a pack with Schoeman, Luis, van riel, possibly 1-2 brownlees and blummenfelt is an exciting possibility, not only for the firepower that break would have, but for the fact that that's a couple less horses in the Mola pack to help bridge.

This season was interesting, because other than maybe Birtwhistle (and arguably Mislawchuk, who had a career year), all of the commonwealth guys flamed out this year, and the rest of the Euro Pack dominated, which may have something to do with the March peak for the CWG. It'll be interesting to see next season whether this is temporary, or if it's just a huge upping of the game by the rest of the Euros, building towards Tokyo...
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
For the Record Luis ran 29:44 to Mola's 29:55 in Gold Coast... which goes to show if Mola is on anything less than a stellar day, Luis has a solid shot at outrunning him, and is definitely stronger on the swim, and arguably stronger on the bike (at a minimum far more aggressive)...

It'll be interesting to see if guys like Schilling and Stornes can gain the consistency to get out of the water near the leaders and with 10-15sec on Mola, getting those guys in a pack with Schoeman, Luis, van riel, possibly 1-2 brownlees and blummenfelt is an exciting possibility, not only for the firepower that break would have, but for the fact that that's a couple less horses in the Mola pack to help bridge.

This season was interesting, because other than maybe Birtwhistle (and arguably Mislawchuk, who had a career year), all of the commonwealth guys flamed out this year, and the rest of the Euro Pack dominated, which may have something to do with the March peak for the CWG. It'll be interesting to see next season whether this is temporary, or if it's just a huge upping of the game by the rest of the Euros, building towards Tokyo...

Good point about peaking for the CWG games and making it a long session.

"blummenfelt is an exciting possibility" I've never seen him swim well enough to make the 1st pack. If that started to happen it certainly would make the chasers job a lot harder.

I think the other races believe that if Mola is actually forced to ride hard then he doesn't run as well off the bike.
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [newManUK] [ In reply to ]
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newManUK wrote:
I think the other races believe that if Mola is actually forced to ride hard then he doesn't run as well off the bike.

He can definitely be softened up to the extent that a Luis level runner can take him on the run. But Montreal showed that he has improved massively in this respect - compare 2018 to 2017 where he fell apart after running through 5km like a man possessed. This year he just kept it going.
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [Adman] [ In reply to ]
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Adman wrote:
newManUK wrote:

I think the other races believe that if Mola is actually forced to ride hard then he doesn't run as well off the bike.


He can definitely be softened up to the extent that a Luis level runner can take him on the run. But Montreal showed that he has improved massively in this respect - compare 2018 to 2017 where he fell apart after running through 5km like a man possessed. This year he just kept it going.

Agreed he certainly has progressed as a complete athlete this year and was more patient in the GF. He followed on the first part of the run and let others chase initially.

Does Mola have to be more selective with his racing to get an Olympic medal? What do I know he has better people advising him than me :)
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [newManUK] [ In reply to ]
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Mola has definitely improved both in his resilience and patience in chasing down breakaways on the run and still running stellar times, and on being an active contributor on the bike. A few years ago, you would never see him on the front of a chase group during the bike leg, he would sit in, and would hope that others got him within striking distance to unleash his run and nab a podium. The last couple of years, he's taken more responsibility (not sure if this was by choice or necessity, because people stopped wanting to gift him a podium, so his only choice was to do the work to keep the gap reasonable, or risk being too far back to have any shot at a result....).

I'll also note that Schoeman has made bike steps this year on that front too... if you look at AB's comments during Superleague Jersey about schoeman's reputation bike wise (make the break because of his swim ability, and then sit in the break and do no work and try to hang on during the run for a podium). He's shown that he will do some more bike work (least of all witnessed by his solo break in Abu Dhabi and then keeping mola at bay with the run...), and still be one of the last men standing on the run...
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [newManUK] [ In reply to ]
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newManUK wrote:
Does Mola have to be more selective with his racing to get an Olympic medal? What do I know he has better people advising him than me :)

I think the he and Joel Filliol will prioritise Tokyo in 2020 so his season will probably look a lot different. The MO for the last 3 years has to basically have the championship won before the grand final which means being extremely fit March to July. To extend that into September is a big ask. So things will no doubt be tweaked somewhat to have a higher peak for a shorter period in 2020.
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
I'll also note that Schoeman has made bike steps this year on that front too... if you look at AB's comments during Superleague Jersey about schoeman's reputation bike wise (make the break because of his swim ability, and then sit in the break and do no work and try to hang on during the run for a podium). He's shown that he will do some more bike work (least of all witnessed by his solo break in Abu Dhabi and then keeping mola at bay with the run...), and still be one of the last men standing on the run...

His bike handling in Abu Dhabi was sublime. To instigate and hold a break through more or less bike skills alone was really cool to see.

AB was maybe a little harsh - Schoeman is only 59kg so is never going to be a powerhouse.
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [Adman] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed - I didn’t realize how good of a handler he was until Abu Dhabi. Very impressive, as was the run.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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As for Pearson, I heard he slipped and dropped his chain in T1, so he basically rode solo. I hope we get to see him come out of T2 with the group a few times next year.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
yes 2 lap swim, exit water onto pontoon and dive back for 2nd lap.


Interesting, have never seen a race where they did that but rather usually just run and dive back into water. Thanks for the details!!!

I watched Lausanne in 2006, here's the u-23s going around - in under the Finish banner, then straight out again.
It looked like a kind of synchronized swimming, a continuous flow of black wetsuit bodies arcing into the water..

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Re: Gold Coast ITU World Champs Has Some Incredible Possibilities This Week [doug in co] [ In reply to ]
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doug in co wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
yes 2 lap swim, exit water onto pontoon and dive back for 2nd lap.


Interesting, have never seen a race where they did that but rather usually just run and dive back into water. Thanks for the details!!!


I watched Lausanne in 2006, here's the u-23s going around - in under the Finish banner, then straight out again.
It looked like a kind of synchronized swimming, a continuous flow of black wetsuit bodies arcing into the water..


Interesting, nice picture!!! Those guys, or girls, appear to be really spread out, as in 6-7 min between fastest and slowest swimmers.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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