tuckandgo wrote:
trimick wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
I'm not a Sky fan as I realy wanted another team to win, but really all the other teams have access to exactly EVERYTHING that Sky has....they have access to financial markets, sponsors, medical, equipment and the best training methods and organization. Its not a farce that Sky beats them. It's not like the other teams are doping less. If anything the biggest farce in the peloton is Vino running a protour team and meanwhlile everyone is beating up on Sky. Oschowicz is running BMC, but he also ran Motorola....sooo it's not like everyone Sky is racing are saints.
Where did I say anything about the size of their budget? You said attention to detail and I think that is the biggest piece of crap about them.
They are dirty.
Everyone has dismissed 'attention to detail' mainly because of the irritating catch phrase marginal gains. However it is not unreasonable to understand that they have the resources to do things 'better' than other teams and that makes a difference, better in race support, better off season support, better nutrition, (did you hear about the the cost of the ketone drinks $100s per day per person on a race day) it all adds up. Overlay this with paying for multiple super domestiques and you have the winning 'formula'.
It's not dirty. Not that you will accept that.
tuckandgo wrote:
trimick wrote:
cartsman wrote:
trimick wrote:
Where did I say anything about any of that? I took issue with one thing that Dev said about the attention to detail nothing else.
You said their attention to detail was "a farce" and "crap". When in fact pretty much everybody who is actually close to and knowledgeable about professional cycling is consistent in saying that Sky are the most meticulous, innovative and professional team on the circuit. Recent examples including Bobby Julich who talked about this at length on The Move podcast last week, and Cameron Wurf who came onto this forum and talked about it (
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6673569#p6673569).
Some of that is down to budget like 3D printing of custom titanium aerobars for each rider, or being able to afford to train and race on (legal) nutritional products that promote ketone burning and cost ~$100/day/rider. Some of it is just plain common sense - e.g. it's remarkable that a rider like Bardet who has GC aspirations will openly admit that he doesn't ride his TT bike much because he doesn't like it. Also turned out that Thomas had ridden the Tour TT course 2-3 times in training this season, while Roglic (and presumably some other GC contenders) hadn't ridden it at all. When the margins are increasingly tight, that stuff does make a difference. As does going into a Grand Tour with a clear strategy built around a Number 1 and Number 2 rider, rather than just going in like Movistar with 3 leaders and seeing what happens.
Again if they had great attention to detail they would know what was in the jiffy bag, they wouldn't have lost medical files, they wouldn't have ordered testerone, they wouldn't have hired past coaches with doping connections, and they would have known that Froome had asthma or was a once in a lifetime talent before they were going to get rid of him. If you look at the facts there is zero way that anyone will ever get me to believe that Sky has great attention to detail.
It's not 'attention to detail' as in attention to minutiae it's just having 'better everything' across the board. Some people might call that attention to detail.
What you actually mean is that you don't believe they aren't doping otherwise they would 1. say what was in the jiffy bag. 2. Produced the medical files. 3. wouldn't have extra testosterone. etc.
So why don't you just say that ;-)
I don't see why this has to be an either/or ~ you're both right (except for the bolded bit). It's indeed true they do a better, more thorough job of squeezing the last bit of edge out of all the myriad details, and everything else money can buy... but that doesn't exclude the shady/illegal shit, too.
No different than Postal/Disco in their day ~ they had the best guys at the front, the best support riders, the best training & nutrition, support services from top to bottom throughout the entire organization, etc, etc... AND the best doping program.
