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Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps
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Where is Power13 to put up these stage by stage threads?...I am bonking coming into Paris. It was fun following the TdF, but some days by the time I was done work, physio, and other things at my startup I did not get to this till midnight so it felt like less "fun" than when you have all the evening to view all the videos online, triple replay the day's stage and read all the articles on Cycling News, Velonews and L'Equipe. Hopefully by next year, through rehab and I am riding in the Alps and catching a stage or two live!

Well one more stage left....some old images of Thomas

Beijing 4000m Team Pursuit Gold


2007 with Barloworld



2010 Tour of Qatar




2012 Team Pursuit London Olympics



Alpe 2018



Final GC



OK, It's almost done. The guys have to stay upright for tomorrow and Sagan just has to finish to take the Green Jersey.

Any predictions on the sprinter on the Champs Elysees?
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Would like kristoff

Smokey : eddy boss just coz I like the guy

Don’t want but likely: demare
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Gosh, I'm tired of seeing this again. At least they'll be wearing different jerseys this year (along with another rider in yellow).



Wish that Sagan was 100% for tomorrow, but he's too broken to have much chance. Figure it will come down to Kristoff and Demare with Degenkolb in with a shot.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
Gosh, I'm tired of seeing this again. At least they'll be wearing different jerseys this year (along with another rider in yellow).



.

Only because you don't like them. People who don't like Sky forget that for Sky fans their dominance is great.
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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If any STers want to hang out, I am down in the park by the Louvre for the arrival. Random but you never know. PM me or say hi if you see a skinny shaved leg guy in a “life is brewtiful” shirt. Posting in both TdF topics just in case.
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
Wish that Sagan was 100% for tomorrow, but he's too broken to have much chance. Figure it will come down to Kristoff and Demare with Degenkolb in with a shot.

Agreed. I'd love to see Sagan and figure he'll be top 10, but I'm just impressed he made it through the mountains.

On CN they are heralding Thomas as the "new leader" of Sky. I'm still not 100% sure that's the case. It's not like Froome collapsed completely. The next GC race will be the tiebreaker I suppose.
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [Durhamskier] [ In reply to ]
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I don't see them entering the same GTs. There are 3 in a year, Froome must be done with trying to double up now, and there's nobody else on Sky who obviously needs to be given leadership role in a GT in the next year or 2 (I think Bernal needs at least one more year, 21 is crazy young).

So question will really come down to Sky deciding who the best bet for the Tour is, and the other one does Giro (and possibly Vuelta). They showed with Wiggins they are pretty ruthless about these things, I don't see then having a problem with making a call that either leaves Froome not able to go for the iconic 5th Tour win, or Thomas not able to defend his title.
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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tuckandgo wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
Gosh, I'm tired of seeing this again. At least they'll be wearing different jerseys this year (along with another rider in yellow).



.


Only because you don't like them. People who don't like Sky forget that for Sky fans their dominance is great.


Honestly if this picture had Froome in the middel of the white jerseys I would be happier just so that Hinault's nose could be rubbed in the dirt.

For Thomas I am personally happy, but I would have liked to see Sky NOT pull it off.

But to me this is almost like the British coming over and taking all of India and ruling the entire place with 500,000 people vs 300 Million Indians who could not pull their heads out of a paper bag and would just keep fighting themselves. I'll give the British the upper card when it comes to doing a lot of things efficiently and getting organized and this is instantiated in Sky. Their planning, execution, attention to detail and leaving no stone unturned is just a testament to what a focused company can do and take on the world.

For the other teams, they can get as organized, they can raise more funds (the entire world of fundraising is there for them and at one point Sky was a startup). All teams have access to all the equipment, recovery tools, and medical support (at this point whether it is legal or grey zone or whatever, all teams have the same access).

Man, I want to see Sky get beaten, but just like the 300 Million Indians who could not pull their heads out of a paper bag to kick the British off their turf, it seems the rest of the world's teams are stuck in the same category. This British team just figured out how to dominate all these guys.

Now can someone go beat them next year?
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Jul 29, 18 6:06
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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A Degenkolb win today would be nice.

According to the weather forecast, winds are 30 kph coming from the South West meaning that the wind on the final Champs finish should be kind of a cross wind coming over the left shoulder of the riders. Advantage if you are coming over the right shoulder, but then you have the barriers and Demare more than likely veering right and shutting everyone trying to squirt through...at least there won't be any giant Abdoujaparov Coke Can in that spot:


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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I’m going to be down there to watch, but have the family in tow. I’m sure they would love to hear a discussion on 1 piece v. 2 piece trisuits or which nutrition is best on a hot day. It’s my first time seeing the race so I’m rather excited.

Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I like deg but it seems he is turning more into a classics rider than an out and out sprinter like he was. He was a hell of a lead out for kittel in the giant days
He deserved that stage this year
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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From CN, ouch:

16:42:09 CEST
Thomas finishes his champagne and gives his empty glass to Froome to dispose of. How the mighty have fallen.
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
Gosh, I'm tired of seeing this again. At least they'll be wearing different jerseys this year (along with another rider in yellow).



.


Only because you don't like them. People who don't like Sky forget that for Sky fans their dominance is great.


Honestly if this picture had Froome in the middel of the white jerseys I would be happier just so that Hinault's nose could be rubbed in the dirt.

For Thomas I am personally happy, but I would have liked to see Sky NOT pull it off.

But to me this is almost like the British coming over and taking all of India and ruling the entire place with 500,000 people vs 300 Million Indians who could not pull their heads out of a paper bag and would just keep fighting themselves. I'll give the British the upper card when it comes to doing a lot of things efficiently and getting organized and this is instantiated in Sky. Their planning, execution, attention to detail and leaving no stone unturned is just a testament to what a focused company can do and take on the world.

For the other teams, they can get as organized, they can raise more funds (the entire world of fundraising is there for them and at one point Sky was a startup). All teams have access to all the equipment, recovery tools, and medical support (at this point whether it is legal or grey zone or whatever, all teams have the same access).

Man, I want to see Sky get beaten, but just like the 300 Million Indians who could not pull their heads out of a paper bag to kick the British off their turf, it seems the rest of the world's teams are stuck in the same category. This British team just figured out how to dominate all these guys.

Now can someone go beat them next year?


Interestingly we (as much as I am British) have done exactly the same thing in rowing and broadly dominated the sport since 2000 (I say broadly as it is more nuanced than that), the Aussies are finally copying our system and the balance of power will probably shift. A lot of it is detailed in a recent biography of the chief rowing coach, Jurgen Grobler (who incidentally has coached an olympic gold medal every olympics since 1976).

The gist of it is quite simple -

1. Throw massive resources at it, including coaching, support teams, equipment so the cutting edge best is always available.
2. Centralise training so that the best athletes are working together all the time (historically not the case in rowing, or in cycling for that matter)
3. Run deep talent ID programmes and ruthlessly develop stars and cull others as necessary.

On paper it's not rocket science, in practice it is very difficult to do. These are the 'marginal gains' of rowing, you can decide for yourself if they are applicable to cycling.

(There's even some pre Berlin Wall East German doping thrown in for good measure.)
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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JAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kristoff!!!!!!
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
Gosh, I'm tired of seeing this again. At least they'll be wearing different jerseys this year (along with another rider in yellow).



.


Only because you don't like them. People who don't like Sky forget that for Sky fans their dominance is great.


Honestly if this picture had Froome in the middel of the white jerseys I would be happier just so that Hinault's nose could be rubbed in the dirt.

For Thomas I am personally happy, but I would have liked to see Sky NOT pull it off.

But to me this is almost like the British coming over and taking all of India and ruling the entire place with 500,000 people vs 300 Million Indians who could not pull their heads out of a paper bag and would just keep fighting themselves. I'll give the British the upper card when it comes to doing a lot of things efficiently and getting organized and this is instantiated in Sky. Their planning, execution, attention to detail and leaving no stone unturned is just a testament to what a focused company can do and take on the world.

For the other teams, they can get as organized, they can raise more funds (the entire world of fundraising is there for them and at one point Sky was a startup). All teams have access to all the equipment, recovery tools, and medical support (at this point whether it is legal or grey zone or whatever, all teams have the same access).

Man, I want to see Sky get beaten, but just like the 300 Million Indians who could not pull their heads out of a paper bag to kick the British off their turf, it seems the rest of the world's teams are stuck in the same category. This British team just figured out how to dominate all these guys.

Now can someone go beat them next year?

Sorry the attention to detail is just a farce. They claim to be detailed orientated but didn’t know what was in the jiffy bag. They are th shadiest team out there right now. Then you add in Froome’s asthma not being known, him having a parasite, and him testing 2 times the legal limit for his asthma medicines if that is attention to detail I would hate to see what isn’t.
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
I don't see them entering the same GTs. There are 3 in a year, Froome must be done with trying to double up now, and there's nobody else on Sky who obviously needs to be given leadership role in a GT in the next year or 2 (I think Bernal needs at least one more year, 21 is crazy young).

So question will really come down to Sky deciding who the best bet for the Tour is, and the other one does Giro (and possibly Vuelta). They showed with Wiggins they are pretty ruthless about these things, I don't see then having a problem with making a call that either leaves Froome not able to go for the iconic 5th Tour win, or Thomas not able to defend his title.

What they should do is have GT try to win the Vuelta and Giro. That would let GT have the satisfaction of winning all 3. Then you sit GT for next years tour and go all in on Froome. Let Froomey get in the record books with #5 and then retire him. Then you let GT or Bernal be the main dude in 2020 and go from there.
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [T3_Beer] [ In reply to ]
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Just wanted to say that I can watch the circuit on the Champs again and again and again and again....this was an awesome end:





...and Sagan after ejecting into the woods, finishes off the green jersey quest!


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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [trimick] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not a Sky fan as I realy wanted another team to win, but really all the other teams have access to exactly EVERYTHING that Sky has....they have access to financial markets, sponsors, medical, equipment and the best training methods and organization. Its not a farce that Sky beats them. It's not like the other teams are doping less. If anything the biggest farce in the peloton is Vino running a protour team and meanwhlile everyone is beating up on Sky. Oschowicz is running BMC, but he also ran Motorola....sooo it's not like everyone Sky is racing are saints.
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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INDEED, so glad to see him shine on the biggest day in the Tour



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Actually, that is not really true. With a budget 2-3 times all the other teams, their resources are unmatched and that includes the ability to do the unethical things in a way that few other teams could get away with. They also skew the playing field with their wages. W. Pouls is paid $1m per year to do nothing then be a final climb domestic in grand tours, essentially. No other team can compete with that.



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]
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CPT Chaos wrote:
W. Pouls is paid $1m per year to do nothing then be a final climb domestic in grand tours, essentially. No other team can compete with that.

3rd-to-final climb domestique, behind Bernal and Froome. :)
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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tuckandgo wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
Gosh, I'm tired of seeing this again. At least they'll be wearing different jerseys this year (along with another rider in yellow).



.


Only because you don't like them. People who don't like Sky forget that for Sky fans their dominance is great.

Tautologies are tautologies. Also, making the whole thing a foregone conclusion does make the event boring, even for those like me who don't have a vested rooting interest in any of the teams.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
it's not like everyone Sky is racing are saints.

Absolutely not, but you could say the same of Postal. It doesn't make it an even playing field if one team is devoting more resources to doping and doing it better than others.
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]
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CPT Chaos wrote:
Actually, that is not really true. With a budget 2-3 times all the other teams, their resources are unmatched and that includes the ability to do the unethical things in a way that few other teams could get away with. They also skew the playing field with their wages. W. Pouls is paid $1m per year to do nothing then be a final climb domestic in grand tours, essentially. No other team can compete with that.

What I am getting at is that at one point Sky was small. They were a startup from the Protour side of things and gradually built up. They did not end up withe budget they have overnite, but part of competing is coming up with sufficient capital and that's just part of the game in every industry. All the teams have access to the world of capital, not just Sky. Sure Sky has a bigger budget today, but look how big Astana was with Contador and Lance, or the various incarnations of CSC/Saxo Bank or Banesto----->Movistar. BMC has been around since 2007, long before Sky and have had a head start on Sky in terms of going to startup to dominant team. It's a competition out there to go and get the capital to run a big budget. It's not like anyone gifted $$$ to Sky to go run their team. Maybe today they have a leg up, but certainly Astana and Saxobank had a big leg up before Sky was big to get bigger than Sky are now.

It's crazy that I am defending Sky because I don't even like how they dominate. But the other teams just can't pull their heads out of a paperbag to beat Sky. Movistar is a prime example
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Re: Tdf Stage 21: Thomas, Sagan victory Laps [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Just listen/watch to yesterday's The Move podcast (12min mark) and you can hear first hand from Bobby Julich what advantages Sky has over all the other teams. Those teams never had more than 10-15% more money than other teams so there was not much more they could buy or get. Most teams now are just hoping to keep their sponsors (or actively looking to replace those leaving) and living on budgets at about the same size as 8 years ago. Money talks bro...sky has it, and you can see why they are winning year after year.



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
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