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Re: USA Swimming Nationals [hiro11] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not a fan of one meet being a qualifier for international events so far out.
So much can change in that kind of time frame.
Also not a fan of officials using the lap counters. They don't even put them in the water. A swimmer would have to seriously break stroke to actually see them. What a joke. My cynical side says it to have full official employment and extra costs for the event host.
And, missed chances for coaching.
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Re: USA Swimming Nationals [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
tallswimmer wrote:
hiro11 wrote:
Optimal_Adrian wrote:

USA swimming is seriously flirting with disaster with their selection criteria. There was a boatload of top level swimmers who didn't taper much or at all, hoping to get on the team and then really taper for Pan Pacs (Kalisz, Dressel, Lily King, Ledecky were all *not* really tapered for this meet, and I doubt Ryan Murphy was either). Luckily it worked out for most of the biggest names, but like you mentioned Cody Miller and Kevin Cordes didn't make the team (Cody Miller was on record on is youtube blog that he and Lily King were not fully tapering for Nationals).
I agree with you, in fact past experience has proven that this is a real problem. To me, this selection process is why the 2015 Worlds in Kazan was an "off year" for US swimming while in 2016 Rio and 2017 Budapest the team staged a "miraculous" recovery. The 2015 Kazan team simply didn't have the best swimmers from the US (the team was frankly a combination of unmotivated vets focused on Rio and untested newbies), a problem that was quickly rectified in the 2016 Trials. Unsurprisingly 2017 Budapest continued the momentum as the selection had both proven Olympians and peaking newbies. This was exactly my point earlier in this thread: we're lucky that the athletes that I see as having the most potential made the team this time around. I think not only '18 Pan Pacs are looking good, also '19 Worlds are looking good.

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I think the meet suffers from a down year; going to Pan Pacs is not nearly the motivator that a true World Championship is.
I think this is precisely the point of the selection criteria. The idea was to increase the pressure on nationals in a non-Games, non-Worlds year. Without that pressure, these off-off-cycle years would be a total lull for elite swimmers. As a result of the selection criteria, there's actually a lot on the line at this meet and the swimming is probably better. In the previous cycles, swimmers like Grevers (in 2014) and Cordes (this year) didn't properly prepare, missed the team and it caused them real problems. I have limited sympathy for pro swimmers who simply didn't put in the work or didn't taper: the selection criteria are clear, everyone knows the importance. Even Dressel admitted that they had "underestimated the competition", to me that's unacceptable. This meet is a big deal, show up ready to race.

As I said, I think this year we dodged the bullet, most of the "right" people are on the team.


It's funny - we see the exact same hand-wringing every 4 years. I can tell you after having sat on the Board of Directors, and the National Team Steering Committee in the previous 2 quads - results at Pan Pacs and Worlds are just a byproduct to USA Swimming. The ultimate goal is Olympic Gold and preparation to achieve that. So they don't swim fast in the Pre-Olympic Worlds, but the US team has 6 extra weeks of training by not wasting it on a double taper. That comes through every time at the Olympic Games. BTW, this strategy has complete buy in from the High Performance Division at the USO(lympic!!)C.

Olympic golds > Worlds Golds>Pan Pac Golds>Nationals.

Tim - Very interesting, thanks for weighing in!!! My question for you now is do you really think 6 weeks of extra training time out of 4 years is that important???

Further to tall swimmers comment, it really isn’t about 6 weeks training in 4 years. It’s 6weeks a little over one year out from the olympics.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: USA Swimming Nationals [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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tallswimmer wrote:


It's funny - we see the exact same hand-wringing every 4 years. I can tell you after having sat on the Board of Directors, and the National Team Steering Committee in the previous 2 quads - results at PanPacs and Worlds are just a byproduct to USA Swimming. The ultimate goal is Olympic Gold and preparation to achieve that. So they don't swim fast in the Pre-Olympic Worlds, but the US team has 6 extra weeks of training by not wasting it on a double taper. That comes through every time at the Olympic Games. BTW, this strategy has complete buy in from the High Performance Division at the USO(lympic!!)C.

Olympic golds > Worlds Golds>Pan Pac Golds>Nationals.

On the whole, you can't argue that it doesn't work. But I can see where some up-and-comers who might be key players in Tokyo 2020 but aren't yet quite to top-2 (or top-6 100/200 freestyle) could miss out on valuable major, senior-level international meet experience by not swimming at 2019 Worlds.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: USA Swimming Nationals [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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Ahh, but that's where Pan Ams and WUGs come into play. Sometimes it's better for those up and comers to do some winning at international "B" meets than to get buried or overwhelmed by Worlds.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
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