One thing i've noticed is that "gravel" in CO ain't really gravel. It's just high clay content packed dirt with a mag chloride cap to it. Hell, there are many communities in the US that wish their asphalt was a smooth as our dirt!!! That is to say that when i've been elsewhere (wisco, washington, oregon) and ridden their gravel.... whoa.... like swimming in a pea gravel garden. The wider the better i'd guess save for that mud clearance stipulation.

Good luck!

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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exam week, right? studying hard?

;)

Damn, eldo melted out pretty fast.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

Because the 260tpi, glued-on tread "Pro" model isn't tubeless compatible. In fact, none of the Challenge models are (currently) tubeless.

That will be changing soon, though. At Sea Otter, Challenge announced vulcanized 120tpi Gravel Grinder models that will be tubeless compatible. In addition to adding a tubeless bead, they also added rubber to the sidewalls to help with air retention. Both the lower tpi and additional material in the sidewalls don't point towards them rolling faster than the 260tpi Pro models w/latex, however...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

ha! well that makes too much sense ;)

what is more detrimental to Crr, side wall material or the lower thread count (or "it depends")?

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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Thanks, and I agree !

Last weekend was a mix of everything gravel at anti-epic. It had been very loose and washboard, but the hail and rain thursday packed most everything down.

Had bad washboard, thick(er) gravel, and hard pack like you describe. A fun day, with epic good weather !

db

Both :-)

Well...actually, "it depends". Lower tpi means a thicker material (larger threads), so will result in more losses.

The additional sidewall material also adds thickness (and thus more losses)...however, Vittoria used what appears to be a latex-based sidewall "sealer" on the Corsa Speed tires that most likely didn't add much, if any, additional losses.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

i ran 26psi front and 28psi rear. I weigh 161.

I guess a hard to answer question for this area would be "what's a good loose over hard" gravel tire.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

I'm looking forward to seeing the Crr differences in the new tubeless gravel grinder tires vs the current 36c offering.

... but I'd also like to be able to quantify what the penalty is for running a more trail oriented tire like the riddler

My tires so far this season here in Colorado have been the WTB Riddler 45, the Challenge Gravel Grinder 38, and now the Maxis Ravager 40.

My not very expert opinion is when it is loose, the Riddler gives me the most secure feel, but it is not a fast rolling tire. When conditions are less gravel but harder, the Challenge rolls faster.

I only have a couple of hours on the Ravager yet, but the center nobs are less than the Riddler so it seems faster, and it has some larger nobs on the 'side' of the tire that seem to engage the gravel in the turns.

So far, my n=1, not very expert opinion, is that the Ravager seems to be a better all around tire for here.

Tire pressure with all these is about 40 - I know a little high - I'm experimenting with reducing that also.

db

I'm new to the space but the reason i've been just loving my gravel/adventure/touring bike is that with an MTB it's a PITA to ride from the house to the trails on roads (SO SLOW!) on the road bike it's great on the roads but then the trails are super tough. But the new rig is a friking blast on both.... but finding balance in a tire that will not be sluggish on the pavement to the trail and then grip the dirt/gravel once there is proving to be tricky!!!

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

... The good news is that there are actually choices now, unlike a few years ago !

Exactly. That's precisely how I described it to a friend recently. Putting together an "all-road" rig really had me harkening back to the early to mid-80s MTBing. Off-road, it's like what we used to do with fully rigid MTBs...it's just that these things now have drop bars (which work quite well off-road when paired with brifters).

The main difference is that those old MTBs were not only heavy, but we all thought they HAD to have significant knobs on the tires in order for them to work decently off-road. Of course, both the weight and the tires meant that they were a PITA to ride any significant distance to a trailhead, not to mention quickly wearing down the tread blocks. So, we all drove to the trails...and then suspension came to MTBs, making the on-pavement experience even worse (but the really rough stuff got SUPER fun!...so there's that ;-)

Now, I just ride from my house and link multiple dirt roads and off-road trails (most of which I used to only do on a MTB) together in a single ride. So much fun. I haven't touched the full-suspension MTB in over a year :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I have been riding the gravel race 38c/120 TPI with latex tubes and was very happy, these roll great.

I decided to get a set of these 36c Pro as you recommended, because they sounded even better. These tires feel very nice.

Any advice on how to mount them? Mounting them on Zipp 30 course wheels is basically impossible (or at least I'm about ready to give up). I can't even get the tires fully mounted, even without tubes.

Funny you should ask...I just wrote this a few days ago: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6629362#p6629362

I mount mine on Zipp Course 30s too :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Oooo, gravel tires. Love talking about gravel tires.

The ideal tires really depend on the type of gravel you ride. Around me, it's lots of relatively flat, high speed, washboarded farm roads with relatively little chunk. I rarely ride in rain or muck. I like slicks with supple sidewalls the best for my conditions. The big tradeoff is that slicks are kinda useless in even just a little mud. Lately, I've been using Panaracer-made Compass Snoqualmie (44mm) tubeless at about 25-30 psi. They roll very fast indeed and absolutely float over washboard. The big trade off is that they're expensive and supposedly flat prone. I personally have never flatted them, YMMV.

The Vittoria Voyager Hyper is similar to Compass offerings and a lot cheaper. The Soma Supple Vitesse is essentially the same tire at the same price with a different label.

If you ride in the wet, you'll likely want some knobbly tread. For more treaded tires, I really like the Clement / Donnelly X'Plor MSOs. I've used both 36 and 50 widths tubeless. They both are grippy, very durable and somewhat supple. The downside is that they don't roll quite as fast as a slick. The 50 is an amazing tire for rides when you mix in a little singletrack, but you have to have a bike that can fit them. I've personally never flatted these tires over thousands of miles.

Two other tires I've tried and really like:
Maxxis Re-fuse. Very fast and tough slick. Great in dry conditions. The Riddler is essentially the same tire with some knobs and will work better in mud. The Re-fuse is not quite as supple as the Compass, but it's a bit more robust.
Panaracer GravelKing SK. Really grippy and supple. Also, it's available in skinwall which is a plus. I think the regular (slick) GravelKing only goes up to 32, I'd love to try that tire in 45 if they made it.

Tires I tried and didn't like:
WTB Nano. Very slow and stiff. Might be good for very chunky stuff or singletrack, but not for fast gravel.
Continental Marathon Plus: extremely durable but stiff as frozen garden hose and roll like you've got a parachute dragging behind you.
Kenda Happy Medium: slow, clunky and stiff. Yuck.

To anyone in general, whose latex tubes are you using for tires over 30mm wide. Only option I see are ones made by Challenge. Just curious if there are any others out there. Though I have tubeless rims (and tires for that matter), I prefer to just run latex tubes at this time. Thanks.

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I wanna go fast!

I'd second this and say the Nano is a fabulous tire for single track. They won't clear my current frame on wide rims so I'm going to give the riddler a shot next.

Posting in here to get this on my watched list. I'm new to gravel/CX and picked up a Crockett used.

I ran WAY too much pressure first time out. About 50psi and I'm only at 150ish lbs weight.

I felt I was sliding around a bit. I wonder how big a difference going to 40psi would do on a 35mm tire.

Only sucky thing is I have to chew out about 6mi out and back of paved greenway. I guess slow there and back to have my fun in the gravel.

If tubeless, I'd probably start even lower than 40. Maybe 35. I'll also mention if you're using a "normal" road bike pump then it could easily be off by 5psi or more. That's a large percentage. I've typically seen pumps read high rather than low. I use an analog accugage or SKS Digital gage to dial in my pressures for race day.

Regarding going slow on the greenway -- With the right tire, you'll be surprised. Other than some extra comfort and bouncing, you probably won't notice much difference at all. I've been riding asphalt on 24psi in some 700x43s for the past few weeks. My average speeds aren't much slower than on my road bike. In fact, I was riding with 3 guys on road bikes last night, and it just felt like a normal effort.

I agree that lower pressure is a better start.

I will add that I have multiple accugauges and sks gauges and they all read differently at CX pressues (17 to 30psi). So, while precise, perhaps not very accurate. What's most important is to use the same gauge. (I coach a CX team and my handheld gauges have a +/- PSI offset written in silver sharpie on them).

The only accurate and precise gauges I've come across are the Craftsman inflators. I've checked mine against multiple others and they've been within 0.1 psi.

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