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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
Why shouldn't you wear a watch?
Why shouldn't you bilateral breath? God I hate swimming so much conflicting advice out there...


I have coached and instructed a lot of folks on how to swim faster. So, yes, I can tell you a million things, but you are absolutely right, how in the bloody heck can you confirm if what I (or any coach) tells you is correct or not correct? That is a very valid point.

However, there is a super easy method to check if the stuff you are hearing is correct: videos of fast distance swimmers in competition on youtube.

So, if a coach tells you to, say, not bilaterally breath (i.e., not to breathe every 3 pulls), but instead to breathe every left pull (or every right pull), then just go on youtube and look at the fastest folks swimming in National and International swim meets. BUT not just any swimmers, but only very fast male or female swimmers who are approximately equal to you in height AND who are swimming 800-1500 meters or longer (so, if you are a triathlete, DO NOT look at sprinters and try to emulate what they do). Watch what the DISTANCE swimmers do as they race, how do they breathe?

You can also look for videos of elite or high-caliber triathlons (where there is a camera with the lead swimmers for much of the race, swim 'highlights' are kinda useless) and watch what those top swimmers do as they race in open water. The same thing applies: watch what they do as they race, how do they breathe?

Of course, you can do this check regarding nearly ANY piece of advice a coach gives you, ones about head position, arm entry, arm recovery, kick strength/frequency, body position, body roll, etc, etc, etc. You really should do this with ANY guidance that ANY coach gives you, his/her credentials or experience don't mean sh*t in this arena. The only thing that means anything is if the advice is evidence-based. (And, you're right, tons and tons of swim advice is total crock.)

Anyway, if those super fast distance swimmers (in the videos that you have spent some time carefully examining) are doing what your coach told you to do, then I would say, yes, the coach is likely on to something.

But if those distance swimmers are NOT doing what your coach told you to do, then I would say you probably need a new coach ...

In my experience, this method reduces the so-called 'conflicting' advice to close to zero. And, using this evidence-based approach, you can easily determine who the blow-hards are who make stuff up or don't understand fast swimming, and who the smart coaches are who actually deliver effective swim instruction. Finally, you can also use this method to check nearly any swim info you hear/read/see online as well.

Hope that helps,
Greg @ dsw

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Jul 3, 18 17:36
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
dunno wrote:
Why shouldn't you wear a watch?
Why shouldn't you bilateral breath? God I hate swimming so much conflicting advice out there...


I have coached and instructed a lot of folks on how to swim faster. So, yes, I can tell you a million things, but you are absolutely right, how in the bloody heck can you confirm if what I (or any coach) tells you is correct or not correct? That is a very valid point.

However, there is a super easy method to check if the stuff you are hearing is correct: videos of fast distance swimmers in competition on youtube.

So, if a coach tells you to, say, not bilaterally breath (i.e., not to breathe every 3 pulls), but instead to breathe every left pull (or every right pull), then just go on youtube and look at the fastest folks swimming in National and International swim meets. BUT not just any swimmers, but only very fast male or female swimmers who are approximately equal to you in height AND who are swimming 800-1500 meters or longer (so, if you are a triathlete, DO NOT look at sprinters and try to emulate what they do). Watch what the DISTANCE swimmers do as they race, how do they breathe?

You can also look for videos of elite or high-caliber triathlons (where there is a camera with the lead swimmers for much of the race, swim 'highlights' are kinda useless) and watch what those top swimmers do as they race in open water. The same thing applies: watch what they do as they race, how do they breathe?

Of course, you can do this check regarding nearly ANY piece of advice a coach gives you, ones about head position, arm entry, arm recovery, kick strength/frequency, body position, body roll, etc, etc, etc. You really should do this with ANY guidance that ANY coach gives you, his/her credentials or experience don't mean sh*t in this arena. The only thing that means anything is if the advice is evidence-based. (And, you're right, tons and tons of swim advice is total crock.)

Anyway, if those super fast distance swimmers (in the videos that you have spent some time carefully examining) are doing what your coach told you to do, then I would say, yes, the coach is likely on to something.

But if those distance swimmers are NOT doing what your coach told you to do, then I would say you probably need a new coach ...

In my experience, this method reduces the so-called 'conflicting' advice to close to zero. And, using this evidence-based approach, you can easily determine who the blow-hards are who make stuff up or don't understand fast swimming, and who the smart coaches are who actually deliver effective swim instruction. Finally, you can also use this method to check nearly any swim info you hear/read/see online as well.

Hope that helps,
Greg @ dsw

Thans Greg, and what about the watch? I wear one to keep track of distance/laps as Im so busy concentrating on technique I foregt what lap im up to?
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
dunno wrote:
Why shouldn't you wear a watch?
Why shouldn't you bilateral breath? God I hate swimming so much conflicting advice out there...


I have coached and instructed a lot of folks on how to swim faster. So, yes, I can tell you a million things, but you are absolutely right, how in the bloody heck can you confirm if what I (or any coach) tells you is correct or not correct? That is a very valid point.

However, there is a super easy method to check if the stuff you are hearing is correct: videos of fast distance swimmers in competition on youtube.

So, if a coach tells you to, say, not bilaterally breath (i.e., not to breathe every 3 pulls), but instead to breathe every left pull (or every right pull), then just go on youtube and look at the fastest folks swimming in National and International swim meets. BUT not just any swimmers, but only very fast male or female swimmers who are approximately equal to you in height AND who are swimming 800-1500 meters or longer (so, if you are a triathlete, DO NOT look at sprinters and try to emulate what they do). Watch what the DISTANCE swimmers do as they race, how do they breathe?

You can also look for videos of elite or high-caliber triathlons (where there is a camera with the lead swimmers for much of the race, swim 'highlights' are kinda useless) and watch what those top swimmers do as they race in open water. The same thing applies: watch what they do as they race, how do they breathe?

Of course, you can do this check regarding nearly ANY piece of advice a coach gives you, ones about head position, arm entry, arm recovery, kick strength/frequency, body position, body roll, etc, etc, etc. You really should do this with ANY guidance that ANY coach gives you, his/her credentials or experience don't mean sh*t in this arena. The only thing that means anything is if the advice is evidence-based. (And, you're right, tons and tons of swim advice is total crock.)

Anyway, if those super fast distance swimmers (in the videos that you have spent some time carefully examining) are doing what your coach told you to do, then I would say, yes, the coach is likely on to something.

But if those distance swimmers are NOT doing what your coach told you to do, then I would say you probably need a new coach ...

In my experience, this method reduces the so-called 'conflicting' advice to close to zero. And, using this evidence-based approach, you can easily determine who the blow-hards are who make stuff up or don't understand fast swimming, and who the smart coaches are who actually deliver effective swim instruction. Finally, you can also use this method to check nearly any swim info you hear/read/see online as well.

Hope that helps,
Greg @ dsw


Thanks Greg, and what about the watch? I wear one to keep track of distance/laps as I'm so busy concentrating on technique I forget what lap i'm up to?

Dunno - The "no watch" rule in swimming stems mainly from the fact that most real swimmers do not wear a watch but rather use the pace clock. I've swum 10K straight in a 25-m pool using just the pace clock and was able to keep up with my distance and time; this was in my pre-tri swimming career so no watch at all. However, once i got into tri and someone gave me a Timex Ironman Tri watch, i've been using some version of the Timex Ironman to time my swims, bikes, and runs ever since. The Ironman watch is about 1/3 the size of the Garmins i've seen so it is not as obtrusive in the pool, but it is still there. Swimming purists, kind of like cycling's "rules", will take points off of their evaluation of you as a swimmer due to the watch but, if you can develop the very relaxed, super smooth stroke of a "real swimmer", then they will overlook the watch and just chalk it up to your triathlon habit. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
Thanks Greg, and what about the watch? I wear one to keep track of distance/laps as Im so busy concentrating on technique I foregt what lap im up to?

Good question, sorry for the delay in my reply.

So there is no watch "rule", well, at least none that l know of. My observation is just that lots of swimmers struggling with getting an efficient and mostly symmetrical freestyle stroke are swimming with a watch nearly the size of a brick strapped to one wrist. That can't be good for one's speed when you really need every single watt for overcoming drag and for forward propulsion.

Sure, if you're a fast enough swimmer to drop the field in most every race you do, I guess you can afford to waste some watts. But if you're not in that class, l would suggest losing the watch.

Alternatives: put your wristwatch by the side of the pool, or use a pace clock, or just use the second hand of the regular clock on the wall?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Jul 5, 18 9:09
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