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Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke (Updated with even more bad videos of me swimming in my seizure causing suit)
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Calling all Slowtwitchers. I need your help getting faster. A little bit about me. I've been swimming seriously for the past 4 years with a masters team. I'm in the pool about 3-4 times a week and usually average around 10-13k yards a week. I can do sets leaving on 1:30 so my stroke isn't terrible. It's just not great. I'm a decent biker and runner but I just can't get the swim to be competitive. I'm giving up too much time on the swim to try and catch people on the bike and run. About the only time I can really compete in a half is when the swim is "aided" (1st in Augusta 40-44, 3rd in North Carolina) But when it's not I'm off the podium. I gave up 10 minutes to the fastest swimmer in the 40-44 age group at Raleigh and no matter how fast I bike/run I'm not running that down.


Swim at Augusta was 26 min
Swim at North Carolina 28 min
Swim at Raleigh 36 min.



So, please critique away, but any recommendations on drills to focus on would be greatly appreciated or how to improve the stroke would help. I do a ton of fist drills, one arm, touch and go, finger tip drag. I have been focusing on bending the elbow through the stroke, but when I think I'm doing this, it goes back to straight arm.


Thanks.



Here are some updated videos from this morning. I've really been focusing on the touch and go drill to try and get the "dead spot" out of my stroke. I feel like I'm getting more of a bend but the left arm still won't cooperate as much. I've also been doing a lot of band exercises to try and get some additional range of motion in the left arm. I've been hit 2x on that side so there is some loss of range of motion there, but I'm not going to accept that answer. Also, been trying to do more bilateral breathing. With all the feedback I was 1:15 this morning on the 3rd 100 all out. So, getting faster, but a long way to go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLKpY1CUvf4





Last edited by: TriathlonJoe: May 11, 18 7:23
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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do you have a video showing the right side of your body while swimming? the left arm doesnt look too bad, but the right arm looks like you need to bend the elbow when you start the pull and keep that elbow up.
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Timing - you have a major dead spot in propulsion.

technically, I think you are burying your head a little too much, and you're dropping your elbow on the catch.

forget about fingertip drag drills.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Since you stated yds per week I am assume a 25 yd pool. I counted 20 strokes for 25 yds with a decent streamline so I would suggest, like I always do, work on your catch and pulling some more water. Also like mentioned, not just your head, but your whole body seems a little deep and not on top of the water.
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Is that your 'easy' pace? Curious, as you say you do sets leaving on the 1:30, but it seems you're swimming just about 1:28-1:30 pace in the video. Do you swim those sets at sub 1:25 pace to leave on 1:30?
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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I'll take a stab at it. Your hands appear to be sliding through the water without enough resistance so you arent pulling as much water as you should. Do more pulling but take the wrist strap off and just use the middle finger strap. focus on keeping pressure on the paddle so you are constantly pulling water. Do more skulling so you get more feel for the water. One more nit pick maybe you over rotate the shoulders, it looks like a warm up/down easy stroke in the video. How about filming a lap at 90% effort?
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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First, do you have any comparable video from above the water? Like from someone walking along and filming you from above or nearly so while you are swimming in a wall lane? Such a view would help A LOT.

From this video, there are a few things:

Don't swim with a watch (if you need time info, put a watch by the side of the pool), especially don't swim with a giant watch like yours.
Your head is WAY too low
There is nearly no elbow bend in your pull, you need a lot more bend at the right time to get decent EVF
Don't bilaterally breath, you are slowing yourself massively
On your extension, your left arm never fully extends like it should
The video does not show your kick or leg position and it is important to see that

Also agree on the dead spot in the stroke, if I could see your swim technique from above, I likely could tell you what is causing your dead spot.

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Apr 17, 18 9:37
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Kick timing is pretty high on the list of things I look at, and while it can be extrapolated from leg movement, it really helps to see the foot. Kinda like cutting off the bottom of the pedal stroke in a bike fit video. You're not going to achieve EVF with those shoulders rotated outwards though.
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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I wasn't gonna say anything, but I feel like I have to.

That suit is giving me seizures....

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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I'm certainly no expert, but the observation I'd point your attention to is the relative distance that your forearm/hand is traveling down or diagonal compared to back. I've attached a video below (Karlyn Pipes) that you've probably already seen, but it's a useful reminder, nonetheless. I've been working on this myself, but the caveat is that it requires quite a lot of shoulder flexibility, and I just don't have that. But I've been making changes slowly and improvements have followed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r57eU13l2mw

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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Timing - you have a major dead spot in propulsion.


technically, I think you are burying your head a little too much, and you're dropping your elbow on the catch.

forget about fingertip drag drills.


I agree.

do "catch up" drills to make yourself "longer" in the pool - which in turn will make you rotate your torso more and get more "OOMPH"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2ZUMX0qQns


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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [Peterszew] [ In reply to ]
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Traditional catch up drills don't address crossover. Pipe drill is a better choice.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Like Jason said, finger tip drill will help...



Not seeing the legs in the video isn't helping...

Based on how he dolphins off the wall, I suspect there is excessive knee bend his kick is going too deep, causing some drag that leads to lost power. Both the elbow and shoulder are dropping robbing him of power as well.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
Last edited by: realAB: Apr 17, 18 21:14
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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See above... re shoot both above water and under water... we need to see a wider angle from out of the pool (What a coach would see on deck) and not so tight under the water... I can only guess what the legs are doing. I see a lot of water between the back of your legs and the surface...

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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Those videos are awesome! Thanks. I'll get some more video with full body and above the water next Tuesday.
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks everyone for the feedback. It has been a tremendous help. I'll get some more video of the full body including the kick and also above the water.

Thanks again. I really appreciate all of you guys' help.
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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I’ll say it...wait, there was talk about swimming in that video? The music didn’t help either.
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [H2Owings] [ In reply to ]
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Hardest skill in swimming to execute... ^

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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As other have stated we need to see your legs. One poster noticed your body position, and stated there is way to much water between your back/butt, I agree you should be riding higher up. You are totally dragging your body through the water at the wrong angle, and not getting enough catch to really move fast. I would work with a pull buoy and paddles, to get the correct body position, and force yourself to work your upperbody and get a better feel of the water, and understand/feel where the power is when you swim.

"Don't mistake activity for achievement"
-John Wooden
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [H2Owings] [ In reply to ]
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H2Owings wrote:
I’ll say it...wait, there was talk about swimming in that video? The music didn’t help either.


I believe i'd like to get some private lessons from that girl. She's looking good in the cross-over turn video also. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Last edited by: ericmulk: Apr 19, 18 20:25
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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So you did a 26/28/36 minutes 1/2 ironman swims and you are giving up 10 minutes, to who??? That would be a 16/18/26 minute swim for the masters guys, dont really think that is possible. Unless all the courses you do are super short(except for the 36 swim) you should not be losing that much time, in fact 26/28 are usually front pack swims in masters.

Anyway I assume these are all wetsuit swims, or is the 36 a skin swim and that is why it is so much slower? You are the kind of swimmer who benefits greatly from a wetsuit, that is apparent. So stick with those, and do a lot more paddle/buoy pulling in workouts. It will fix a couple things you got going on, and you are already fast enough with that stroke, so just get stronger so you can swim in that wettie a couple minutes faster!!
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
So you did a 26/28/36 minutes 1/2 ironman swims and you are giving up 10 minutes, to who??? That would be a 16/18/26 minute swim for the masters guys, dont really think that is possible. Unless all the courses you do are super short(except for the 36 swim) you should not be losing that much time, in fact 26/28 are usually front pack swims in masters.

Anyway I assume these are all wetsuit swims, or is the 36 a skin swim and that is why it is so much slower? You are the kind of swimmer who benefits greatly from a wetsuit, that is apparent. So stick with those, and do a lot more paddle/buoy pulling in workouts. It will fix a couple things you got going on, and you are already fast enough with that stroke, so just get stronger so you can swim in that wettie a couple minutes faster!!

No I think he said giving up 10mins for Raleigh and the 26 was current assisted. So 36mins would be his typical 70.3, wetsuit swim.
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [monty] [ In reply to ]
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36 was Raleigh in a swim skin. Fastest swimmer was 26 min and top ten was roughly 30 min so with a great bike and good run, I was still 10 min back from top 5.

26 was Augusta and that was a swimskin but it was downstream and I got lucky in that I was able to find someone just a bit faster than me that I drafted off of.

28 was North Carolina in a wetsuit. We had a current, but I freaked (still have mental issues when I can't breathe) at the beginning and had to stop 6-7 times to clear my goggles.

Thanks for the tips. I felt a lot faster today, working on the EVF and getting rid of that straight arm. I walking around popping my shoulder making weird swimming motions, but dang it I'm gonna get faster!
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Timing - you have a major dead spot in propulsion.

technically, I think you are burying your head a little too much, and you're dropping your elbow on the catch.

forget about fingertip drag drills.

This is a good diagnosis. Try extending your arms into the catch by rotating your hip down on that side, then pull from a spot on the underside of your elbow. That should help you keep a high elbow. Kick into that arm extension.

It's always fun to watch the Thorpedo swim freestyle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b1Fiw9uekM

Strava
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Re: Help! I need to get faster swimming - Critique my stroke [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
First, do you have any comparable video from above the water? Like from someone walking along and filming you from above or nearly so while you are swimming in a wall lane? Such a view would help A LOT.

From this video, there are a few things:

Don't swim with a watch (if you need time info, put a watch by the side of the pool), especially don't swim with a giant watch like yours.
Your head is WAY too low
There is nearly no elbow bend in your pull, you need a lot more bend at the right time to get decent EVF
Don't bilaterally breath, you are slowing yourself massively
On your extension, your left arm never fully extends like it should
The video does not show your kick or leg position and it is important to see that

Also agree on the dead spot in the stroke, if I could see your swim technique from above, I likely could tell you what is causing your dead spot.

Why shouldn't you wear a watch?
Why shouldn't you bilateral breath? God I hate swimming so much conflicting advice out there...
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