I'll say it again, you need a better fit to know where your contact points ought to be before you think about changing frames. Sorry I can't help more than that.

Seats still way too high. Did you notice your effective seat height got higher with the ism even though you didn’t move the seat post? What length are those cranks again?

Do you want a new bike bc you want a different size or bc you want a new bike? Bc you should get the fit sorted out before worrying about sizes.

I would tilt your extensions up (so that your forearms angle up a hair), I'd move your armpads forward a bit more and drop the pads 1-2cm and see how that looks.

It's still to high?
Cranks are 172,5mm. Both saddles are set at 80,5cm srom BB to prongs in ISM and center of saddle in Cobb.


Probably both ;) When I'd looked at movies frame looks small with all that spacers.


Pads are now dropped 2,5cm compared to 1st movie (-2,5cm spacers, +50mm risers under pads). I had discomfort around my neck and shoulders when dropped more. I can still move them a 1 or 2 cm forward. Do I need to move saddle forward by same lenght?

If we're gonna do a virtual fit online, I think the seat needs to be in the right place before we start messing with the front end.

He's saying 4cm setback (from the linked retul sheet) with an ISM, at a seat height of 80.5cm. That's a pretty forward position in my opinion (but I'm a road/TT fitter, multisport fitters may disagree). Combine that with his complaint of pain when the bars are lower, and I think there's simply too much weight on the front end. I'd slide the seat back a bit (while maintaining the distance from the top of the saddle to the BB) until he's a bit more balanced between the seat and the bars, and then start tweaking the front end. I agree the angle of the extensions could come up a bit though, and that can be done independently of fixing the seat position.

Ankle angle makes it really hard to judge whether seat height is close to correct, he could just be a natural toes-down pedaler, or the cleats could be too far forward on the shoe. If the former, then the seat height looks OK. If the latter, or if he's ankling to compensate for the seat height, then it's too high. 80.5 is on the high end for a 6'1" athlete, even with relatively long legs.

You sit on different saddles differently, so effectively the need different heights. It's frustrating, and part of the reason many people will use one type of sale across all bikes, but needs to be kept in mind when fitting.