I respect your opinion and agree largely with your assessment of value. I'll also restate the fact that I admit to not really knowing the true costs associated with a race, I was just working on what I suspect to be true and you may be right that they are making more than I think they are. Regardless, I hope that IMNA continues to demonstrate that people can make money putting on high quality races. If they prosper, they will offer more races, if they offer more races others will do the same. As others get in the game, we'll all have more options and prices on the average will go down.

It came from the origional Ironman. It combined the circle Oahu Bike race which was 115 miles, but they stopped 3 miles short so that the run would be the Honolulu Marathon starting at the Aloha Towers; therfore, 112 miles.

Also, IMHO Roth is the best race and I wouldn't change a thing about it.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Are you sure? Everyone entering the water alongside me seemed the more or less the same age.

Perhaps it was something lost in translation(there was very little info in English). Was the age group start time the default, overidable by personal expectation. If so did the fast swimmers of all ages position themselves just behind the pros? They didn't mention that in the pre race foreigners meeting which took place by the stage after the main meeting. The few English speakers I spoke to were discussing what time we'd show up for our age group.

I started as indicated on the posted age group wave start, which I saw at the village/finish and at the start. They also shouted out the age group as we wound round the tent before entering the water.

It seems strange though. Why would they have wave starts if you were merely supposed to seed yourself. Wouldn't that have eased the congestion of a mass start ?

I don't doubt that you're right I just assumed the starts were age group oriented.

I agree. Sometimes you pay 100$ for a local event with one aidstation on the bike, no massage, unfair transition-zones....That is also overpriced.

But we are talking about well organized Ironman-distance races. I've done a large amount of races around the world (Roth, Lanzarote, Swi, Florida, LP, California, CDA...) and Roth is THE best. Organization wise, beauty, Spectators (no other race comes even close)....

it's still half the price of IMLP, therefore the only difference is the IM-lable.
Everybody does as he pleases but I'm no longer going to pay 200$ for a brandname.

That brings me back to my initial remark:
I hope that other races like Roth will have competitive, exciting races to the finish like we saw with Macca and Lodl, then maybe those events will flourish and become a strong alternative to WTC.

112 mile thin. Nice! and the swim? same again?

Shame they couldn't be bothered to do an out and back to the marathon start!!

Mike, I agree that it should promote more iron distance races but, unless IMNA or WTC agrees to give spots in Hawaii to these other races, there will never be a proliferation of long races. Look at the Duke Blue Devil. It hasn't filled with a $275 entry and $300 late fee. It even gives the entrant a tax deduction of all but $25 of the entry fee because the remainder goes to cancer research.
When my group of friends first started doing marathons in the late 70's, the thing we tried to achieve was qualifying for Boston. Most of us would have not done another marathon if we had qualified. I think this may be the quest of many of the repeaters in IM races, that is, Hawaii rather than Boston.

Bob Sigerson

in CDA there where 1300 participants and 80 slots for hawaii.
Why are all those people going there even though they have no shot at qualifying?

it's a retorical question, no need to answer.

I hope I get the opportunity to try some of the races you're talking about. They sound great.

What the heck does that mean? How did they come up w/ the swim? It was the Waikiki rough water swim event that was previously in place. The origional IM combined already existing events i.e. the Waikiki swim, w/ the Circle Oahu Bike, and and the Honalulu Marathon. That's how the distances came about. I hope I am answering your question.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

if you ever have the chance to do Roth, it's an experience of a lifetime, you ride up the hiil and you only have about 3 feet of space because the rest is filled with spectators.

I start another post where maybe we get other non-WTC races that are well organized and not over-prized.

I did Roth in 2001 when it was still an "ironman" race and it was a superb experience and was quite a bit less to enter. The "pick your own seed times" for the start were a joke since I learned afterwards that many people lie their asses off and I was catching people that started 2 waves ahead (I swam 58:59 so I'm not exactly a superman swimmer). Other than the silly seeding method I found the race to be outstanding. The crowds were amazing and the course is awesome. I will definitely go back and do it again some year. A few weeks back I qualified for a spot at IM Florida and plunked down $375 for the opportunity. It is a lot of money for a race but I checked the participant list on the website and there are 2286 triathletes willing to pay the cash to do the race. That is what determines the pricing, not whether the price of gatorade or policing or pizza goes up. If you're Graham Fraser and the rest of the IMNA group then you're in business to make some money so why not charge what the market will accept. I know that the race will be well run and I'm hoping for a Hawaii spot so I find the price acceptable.

If you are chassing an Hawaii slot you don't have a choice.
But if not you do. And if for more people the 400$ is not acceptable anymore, then we will have more choices and we will have great races all over the place.
And eventually, when the IMNA races don't fill up anymorel, they will have to come down with the price and you get the same product for a fairer price.

I'm just dreaming maybe but I have a lot of peopl that ask me what the best race is for a first, my answer is not going to be LakePlacid that's for sure, although it's a great race!

To pursue on the off topic line...

My understanding is that they customize the Coke to the local taste. Not so much for legal reasons, but to try and give people the formula that they like best. To me, Mexican, American and French Cokes taste very different.

Yes, I'm sure.
Its Professionals, Women, VFA and AG 60, 65 and above in the first wave and all waves 2,3,4, ... are formed around your estimated finisher time.

regards,

Frank

PS: VFA = locally known "very fast agegroupers".

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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.

i think this is pretty typical for imna races. because you have to enter so far ahead of time, people just sign up to secure a spot and then realize at some point along the way that they won't be able to do the race. what a great business model. collect around 800k about a year in advance. have 20-25% of the people who pay get nothing for their money....

brent

that is so very true...here is an email I just got from IMNA

HSBC Ironman USA Lake Placid
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:28:27 -0500


> As the race approaches and we prepare to assign race numbers, we
would
> like to know if any athletes are planning on not being there. Please
let
> me know by Monday. Good luck, train safe and we will see you in 2 1/2
> weeks.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Nikki Purdy
> Ironman North America
> 510B Skyview Dr.
> Panama City, FL 32408
> 850-235-2608
>


this is suspiciously similar to Airlines overbooking planes, maybe this will fire back too, as it did to some Airlines;-)