HeavyD.... "I installed tubies for the first time a couple of months ago and it took me 5 freaking minutes from start to finish, I used tufo tires and the extreme tape, go to their website and they have a video on how to do it, its soooooooooooo easy."

Was the last part sarcastic or were you serious? Have rode your tires yet with the tape? Can you tell difference between the tape and glue? I just order a set of Tufo and the tape also to put on the H3 (not the carbon rimmed.) The movie did seem simple, but If am sure he has done this many of times.

Has anyone (Tom) else used the tape with Tufos? Were they reliable? I am know concerned about using the tape.

Tom.... Since there seems to be some discrepancies about the mounting tubies. And I see that you very familiar with tubies. Can you provide us with a write up on how to perform this properly and even how to change a tubie during a race...

Thanks,

Don

Based on your palmares and resume, I'll retract my challenge.

<reply>If indeed it did require a razor blade to get the job done, then how does that scenario play out in a race? I am pretty sure that tubie users are not riding around with razor blades in their tire repair kits, so I have to assume that a flat tubular tire can be removed by some reasonable means (i.e.: at most a tire lever or two). </reply>

I ride with a razor blade duct taped to the underside of my saddle for just this purpose.

Thanks all - I wouldn't have thought that keeping a razor blade tucked away on the bike was a viable option! Chalk that up as one of the many things I've learned today and I'll keep it in mind for after I buy my race wheels!

Regards,
Clay

HELLO TOM DEMERLY!

Tom,

I'm the original poster on this thread and I'll readily admit that I'm not experienced with tubular tires. The link I posted was one I picked up from the rec.bicycles.tech newsgroup. You probably know who Jobst Brandt is. He's chimed in on the tubular thread over there. You might find that to be interesting reading. I'd say he neither agrees nor disagrees with either of us. (I don't disagree with anybody ... I was just trying to post an informative link.)

But I asked this earlier and you apparently missed it (since you've replied to later postings, but not mine). Since you claim to know a better way of mounting tubulars than what is outlined in the link I posted, would you please share it with us? Also, some other important questions have come out on this thread ... how to deal with flats, what do you do a year or so down the road when the glue gets old, etc.

I guess we're looking to you as the resident guru. Please, your pupils sit at your feet eager to learn, master. (I don't mean that as sarcasm.)

Bob C.

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Bob C.

The "science" on any matter can never be settled until every possible variable is taken into account.

No.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Come to my flat class at the store- it is why I teach it:

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/events/fixaflat.shtml

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Jobst Brandt is still at rec.bicycles.tech. He is an absolute legend!

I remeber engaging with him a few times on the old rec.sport.triathlon newsgroup. What an experience that was.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Tom said, "Come to my flat class at the store- it is why I teach it: "

That's helpful. Sure, I'll just jet right on up there from South Carolina.

You indicate that you know a better way than what's outlined in what I posted (and for all practical purposes, you accuse me of trying to spread some sort of anti-tubular hysteria), but you won't tell us what it is? Hmmmm. I suspect liability concerns? And from that, I suspect that you know it really ISN'T better? What's the deal, Tom?

Bob C.

I have a pair of Campagnolo super record with 1990 vittoria corsa cx tubies mounted on them. They are very dry and so is the glue. I just sold a similar pair on ebay and threw in the tires just in case the guy wanted them. The rear tire's glue was still so good that it ripped the rim strip off the tubular. I've always glued on the thin side, and after 25 yrs of tubular use have never even come close to rolling a tire. Nice thin even coat on tire and rim. Extra glue just gets pressed out anyway. My tufo cyclocross tires are going on 3 yrs.

I have used glue and tape and both have worked just fine for me. The tape is significantly harder to get off than the glue.

I traing on clinchers because those are the cheap wheels I can find deals on. I only race on tubulars.

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Reverend Dr. Jay
Lake of the Pines Triathlon fastest bike course record holder - Golden State Super Sprint fastest tri course record holder - Wildflower Long Course slowest run course record holder (4:46:32)

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"If you have a body, you are an athlete." -Bill Bowerman

Dans take on mounting tubulars, from this very site.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...nance/tiremount.html

It's amazing how much information Dan provides us on this site, all for free.

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"It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster"

"I have very rarely heard anything comparable regarding clinchers giving out catastrophically and causing an accident."

Without taking sides in the Holy Wars, I humbly suggest that you may be the victim of reporting bias. Who is more likely to rack up the miles (and the cumulative risk) on the road- tubular or clincher riders? I don't mean to suggest that I know the answer, but I would predict that those who are sufficiently motivated about cycling to glue tires on their wheels are likely to be riding more often than those who are content to allow molded aluminum do the work for them. Just something to consider.

Ken

But even most dedicated tubular riders typically (not always, but quite often) TRAIN on clinchers and RACE on sew-ups. This still puts a huge disparity in the miles put in on the tubular vs. the miles on the clincher. I think my original point stands.

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Where would you want to swim ?

I followed your link and read most of what Dan had to say. It differs very little from what's recommended in the link I gave. It's a far cry from slapping a bead of glue on the rim and tire and saying you're good to go in an hour. The biggest difference I see is that he uses his finger to spread a bead of glue straight from the tube and he sets the rim aside for 12 hours between coats vs. 24 hours.

Dan's contrasting his technique to what was published in an article about the US Postal mechanics and what they claim they do (4 base layers, etc.).

I'm still curious about Tom's technique and why he won't share it. ;-)

Bob C.

I'm not too interested in getting into the "insurance" debate of how to glue a tubie.

However, the basic problem (I found the research was very well done for a college project, 4.0) is that they didn't take different applications, wear and most importantly, elasticity into consideration. The torque test data is moot b/c the speed of torque is perhaps more important than max torque. To throw further fuel on the fire, the tires did not "roll".....as IMO they didn't use a large enough cross section. Net result, it was a glue-bonding experiment, not a "how to get the most out of the tubular gluing application" experiment.

From the TdL re: the Navigators Oleg Grishkine

"He flatted at 5km and rode it for 2km to make sure he got the bunch time [for being inside 3km]."

Nothing like a good tubular to save your race.

thanks for the link. I'd read that when first I bought tubulars, and followed their prescription for gluing. The new research on carbon rims is frightening, particularly since I have a Continental tire glued with Continental glue on my front Zipp 440 carbon. I don't like the sound of that 'snap'.. shivers.

FWIW, I've been racing tubulars the last 3 years, they have been fine. Of course I do ride timid on steep twisty hills, but still. I believe they resist flats better than clinchers. With reasonable care and fresh glue, I don't think there's much to worry about.

I'd recommend following the 'wash with soap and water, rinse, dry, clean with acetone' protocol before gluing, too. This is the same procedure generally used when gluing d-rings into whitewater canoes. That glue job has to hold against the forces exerted while rolling a canoe full of hundreds of pounds of water. If it fails, a refreshing and possibly lethal swim through class IV/V is next.. so I take it serious. My glue jobs haven't failed me yet.

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

[reply]Well, I think some of this is attributable to a "witch hunt" mentality from people not familiar with tubulars. I hear a lot of stories like:

"I heard about this guy who always used tubulars, he crashed...."

Then the story becomes, "Did you hear about that guy in the Olympics who's tubular exploded on a training ride and now he is paralyzed?"

There is so little real experience out there. The majority of customers regard tubulars as black art. they see them as complex, dangerous and inconvenient. Then, when we ask, "What lead to your views on that?" They tell us, "Somebody who rides a lot told me that."[/reply]


Just thought I'd chime in that I have personally rolled a tubular. Granted it was during a criterium where I clipped a pedal which caused a rear wheel hop and then the tire roll, but it did happen to me. The tire was glued using the procedure on the Vittoria glue tube. I suppose the adhesive bond might have been faulty but I had never had an issue with other glue jobs up to that point.

"Nothing like a good tubular to save your race."

---But nothing like a good tubular (with faulty glue) to come off at high speed and wreck your face.

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Where would you want to swim ?

How do you think you would have faired on a clincher?

Have you ever had a tubular 'save' you? (By being ridable while going flat etc.)

I don't know if I could have kept the bike upright if I was on clinchers or if the tubular stayed on, but the rear end definitely slid out from under me once the tire rolled off. Luckily I had a clear path along the asphalt to the outside of the road so I didn't wipe out half the pack of riders with me, but I was left with large patches of road rash along the right side of my body which is no fun. That was the only unfortunate experience I had with tubulars, but ever since that crash I have a mental block and can't seem to get up the confidence to ride on them again. I figure the extra weight of clinchers is worth the peace of mind to me, plus it's not like I'm competing at an elite enough level to make that much of a difference.