They didn't answer my one question...how often do you have to appy glue? I have tubbies on my race wheels and thus keep the tires for several years. Do I need to reglue each year or will the bond last for several years?

Right TriMike,

I'll add another question. How long do they last either way?

I had a flat in front of the energy lab on Thurs before the race. I used my (new) Conti Comp tube that I had on my saddle for about the last 18 months. Turns out the thing had dry rot all along the inside of the tire. Had to thumb a ride to B&L to buy one, which wasn't deep discount on that day. Glad it happened before the race. I live in Northern NY where it isn't THAT dry!

How long does everyone else keep tubulars around?

I suspect that tubulars would last quite a while in a 'cool dry place'. On you bike, in the blazing sun, with sweat, Gatorade, etc. on it, they probably last a lot less.

Very good read, thanks for the link. I've been considering buying my first pair of tubulars this season. After reading these articles, I still have a question. How do triathletes change a tubie during a race? From the reading it seems that there is almost no bond between tire and rim until at least an hour after mounting. Do you simply mount the spare and ride gingerly to T2? I suppose that you could ride straight on almost no glue, so the problems might only arise when cornering. What's the deal?

-Colin

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Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.

Thanks for this post.....purchased my first pair of tubulars - Vittoria Corsa Evo CX - and now ordered the Vittoria Mastik One as recommended there....for ZIPP 404 wheels.

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Stephen Perera
Gibraltar, Europe
graphics@gibraltar.gi

As long as it has not crystallised, it will be fine. Just check to see if it's crusty a couple times per month.

Yes, if you change a flat in a race, you need to be careful for the rest of the ride. You want to have the layer of glue on your spare.

Interesting stuff.

I had not considered the differences in adherence between aluminum and carbon rims. Makes sense. I have always used Conti Tubulars and Conti glue - even on my carbon rims. Never had a problem, but I think that in future I will go with the Vittoria Mastick.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

One thing that has characterized tubular tire (mis)use is an absurd tendency to over-complication of the entire affair.

Lew Kidder on this forum rode tubulars frequently without even gluing them.

Do not do that. It is wrong and dangerous. However, that speaks to the true level of difficulty required to roll a tire.

Now, a guy like Superdave (national and world class track rider) can actually roll a clincher.

The fact of the matter is tubular tires are easy to mount, very quick and simple to glue, highly flat resistant (much more so than clinchers), weigh less and are quicker to change in a race in the unlikely event you did flat, which I haven't (knock on wood) in 200 triathlons on tubulars.

Why do people love to make a complex, convoluted affair out of something as quick and easy as gluing a tubular?

What we really need is a series of double blind, university tests on something really difficult like combing your hair.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom,

Why did you chime in to say all that, then not tell us how YOU mount tubular tires that's so much easier?

Bob C.

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Bob C.

The "science" on any matter can never be settled until every possible variable is taken into account.

Tom, nothing against you or triathletes even...you simply said something that has been bothering me for years..."quicker to change." I assume this means quicker to change than a clincher? Many tubbie users claim this to be one of the advantages of tubbies over clinchers, quicker to change. I call bs. When I have to change my tubbies (I race on tubbies but train on clinchers), I break into a serious sweat and my fingers are sore for days afterwards.

Here's my challenge. I bet that I can change a clincher faster than you can change a tubbie. My wheel and rubber, Mavic Open Pro rim and Vittoria Open Corsa. Your wheel and rubber, your choice but that tire has to be properly glued on. By properly, I mean glue on all 360 degrees of the rim....no triathlon special (a foot long section of the tire unglued). Hmmm, even though, I might consider allowing you that head start...LOL. Reinflate to 100 psi with frame pump. This is where you will probably spank me, as I have twigs for arms :-)

To make this even more special, I'm a mere roadie (even though I started in tri but hurt my ankle playing soccer and transitioned to cycling only). Perhaps that's why I glue those bad boys on well to withstand crit-type corners at speed. We could even turn this into a roadie vs. triathlete thing :-) The loser would have to wear a t-shirt that says "I got punked by a roadie/triathlete!"

I live in Colorado so I don't know how to handle the logistics of this. Perhaps if you ever come out to the Boulder Peak Triathlon, post a note here and we can set it up.

Seriously though, could we do some sort of survey and have people report back their times for changing tubbies and clinchers?

Dude,

I installed tubies for the first time a couple of months ago and it took me 5 freaking minutes from start to finish, I used tufo tires and the extreme tape, go to their website and they have a video on how to do it, its soooooooooooo easy.

And like others I was curious on how they hold up and how hard it would be to change one after flatting so I tried to take one off a couple of weeks ago and couldnt take it off with my hands, it just wouldnt budge and I used tools and everything, finally I used a razor blade and made a slice across the tire and then pulled up on the sliced end and the whole tire came of, very easy. There is still enough glue left on the rim to satisfactoraly mount another tire in race conditions and have it hold. After doing that little experiment and knowing how to do it Ill say that if I flat in a race I probably can change that tubbie in a couple of minutes.

Just my humble 2 cents worth.

.

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I have horrible back problems but I have zero problems staying in an aero position for 180k. Why? Because I ride steep and because I train regularly in that position. Simple as that.....Gerard

Well, I am neither a roadie nor a triathlete.

I've done over 200 triathlons but probably 300+ road races including racing for a farm-league team full time in Europe in 1990 (Nike/Velo-News/Gatorade- Bobby Julich even did one race for us). I'm also a four time USCF State Champion and once won 11 criteriums in a row.

So, I've done both.

Also, in the "Fix a flat" class we teach here at Bikesport, Inc I frequently demonstrate changing a tubular at real-time speed and then changing a clincher at real time speed.

On the stop watch, the fastest I've ever changed a tubular is under 2 minutes from wheel on to wheel on.

The fastest I can change a clincher is under 5 minutes.

I do use the TUFO sealant on Superdave's recommendation. I didn't even bother with a spare at the Nice Triathlon.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

 "One thing that has characterized tubular tire (mis)use is an absurd tendency to over-complication of the entire affair. "


--Perhaps true. But somebody is not getting the message somewhere, because over the years, I have heard of many, many dramatic and nasty crashes (even hospital stays) due to something not being done correctly regarding the bonding of a tubular tire to a rim. (And the fact that many bike shops refuse or are quite hesitant to glue tires for customers due to liability concerns is very telling.)

I have very rarely heard anything comparable regarding clinchers giving out catastrophically and causing an accident. Of course, I am sure it has happened somewhere to someone, but I never seem to hear about it. You would think that if catastrophic clincher failures happened with equal or greater frequency as tubular glue or bonding failures, we would hear about it MUCH more often (given that worldwide, more people put more miles on clinchers than tubulars, by at least a 50 to 1 ratio). And then added to that fact is that I have personally ridden on high pressure clinchers for 25 years frequently at very high speeds (downhill) and 1,000s upon 1,000s of miles and never had a castastrophic clincher failure ever.

Over-complication or no, SOMETHING is up here.

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Where would you want to swim ?

Greg,

Just curious, what kind of tires are installed on your airplane, Tubular or Clinchers????????, hehehehhehehehhehehehhehhe.

.

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I have horrible back problems but I have zero problems staying in an aero position for 180k. Why? Because I ride steep and because I train regularly in that position. Simple as that.....Gerard

Maybe I am wrong but I thought the Beloki crash at the 2003 TDF was due to clincher. I'm sure someone here at the real story on that...

My point exactly. I can just imagine our company's strange mechanics using vats of glue to bond those tires! Yeah, right.

But I have heard of a/c clinchers being rolled (nosewheel) by improper use of the steering tiller.

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Where would you want to swim ?

Well, I think some of this is attributable to a "witch hunt" mentality from people not familiar with tubulars. I hear a lot of stories like:

"I heard about this guy who always used tubulars, he crashed...."

Then the story becomes, "Did you hear about that guy in the Olympics who's tubular exploded on a training ride and now he is paralyzed?"

There is so little real experience out there. The majority of customers regard tubulars as black art. they see them as complex, dangerous and inconvenient. Then, when we ask, "What lead to your views on that?" They tell us, "Somebody who rides a lot told me that."

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I'll take tubulars any day over clinchers. If you flat during a race, they're easy to roll off the rim (I leave a small 1" long area with no glue so that I can get a finger under it and pull it off), and then I just throw another one on as quick as I can and put a whole large CO cartridge into it (gets it up to about 170psi). With that kind of pressure holding the tire to the rim, and with the residual glue already on the rim, it's very hard to roll it off no matter how twisty the course, especially in my case, where I'm only about 150lbs and not a monster torque-generating maniac ;-)

Tony

<QUOTE> ...so I tried to take one off a couple of weeks ago and couldnt take it off with my hands, it just wouldnt budge and I used tools and everything, finally I used a razor blade... </QUOTE>

Don't know why, but my original words did not accompany the above quote when I first posted this, so hopefully this edit and a second try fare better.)

I will be getting a set of tubular wheels before this coming race season so I have been following this thread with great interest. However, Heavy D, what I am reading in your post is that it took a razor blade to get your tire off the rim. Am I reading this wrong?

If indeed it did require a razor blade to get the job done, then how does that scenario play out in a race? I am pretty sure that tubie users are not riding around with razor blades in their tire repair kits, so I have to assume that a flat tubular tire can be removed by some reasonable means (i.e.: at most a tire lever or two).

Can anyone fill me in on how easy or difficult it usually is to get the flat tubular tire off of the rim in a race situation? Any tricks or hints (assuming that it doesn't just pop off with the flick of a thumb)?

Thanks!
Clay[/quote]

Thanks Big Tony,

I think you answered one or more of my previous questions right about the same time I was typing them up!

Clay

I think the point of the original post, and the linked articles, is that while leaving a small space unglued, may make it easier to change a flat, it also makes it easier to roll. It also points out that temperature does make a difference, but I would havd like to have seen a test as to how much braking is necessary to heat a rim up to 140 degrees.

The recommended procedure isn't that complicated, but it is time consuming from beginning to end (but only 10 mins a day for 3 days).

Clay,

Some people do what the kahuna does and are very successfull with it, but being a larger rider I like to have my glue all the way around.

I probably could have gotten the tubbie of with a couple of tire levers and some more effort BUT that would have cost more time, probably 10 minutes or so, Im a strong guy and that tire was not comming off with my bare hands and fingers, so, If I flat in a race and the sealant doesnt seal the puncture then the tire is trashed anyway so I make a cut across the tire, stick my finger in the tire and pull, It takes less than a minute, then take a prestretched tubbie and put it on and fire a cartridge in there and off you go. As for the razor blade, I tape it to the underside of my seat. It works for me.

.

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I have horrible back problems but I have zero problems staying in an aero position for 180k. Why? Because I ride steep and because I train regularly in that position. Simple as that.....Gerard