Can you not see the difference between purchasing a domain name that has monetary value and is a transferrable right as opposed to a race spot that cannot be transferred and has no monetary value beyond the original purchase price? It's not the same thing.

---

''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

I'm not sure that it could be classed as illegal, but it is possibly unfair.

150 places to US citizens and 50 to the rest of the world. Considering that it is labelled as a "World" championship, this strikes me as wrong.

The only way to mak this fair would be to either have 200 places available from anywhere, or limit the number of lottery entrants from outside the US so that the odds are equal.

Currently I'd say it's bordering on discriminatory, but it would never stand up.

Juries determine the value of things that can't be transfered or sold every day. Pain and suffering for example.

If the right to purchase a Kona slot is of no value, 7000 people wouldn't be gambling (that's what it is) $35 or $85 for a mere chance to get one.

More importantly, neither the California law nor the Florida law require that the "prize" be transferable, so the fact that it isn't would not be a defense. Face it, the lottery is a profit making enterprise for the WTC. People are gambling their money for a chance to race Kona.

If a judge would let this go to a jury, I would like my chances of prevailing.

And IM would love its chances on appeal.

---

''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

If you think it is illegal/discriminatory/unethical, just don't participate. If you really feel strongly against it, hire some lawyers and take it to court. Otherwise, whining about it is not going to do anything meaningful.

You're right, 7000 people have paid for the lottery tickets. Lets just say the average price paid is $85 (I know it isn't). That means 7000 people paid $595,000 for their tickets to the lottory.


As there are 6bln people inthe world it seems that the value of this lottory ticket on a global scale is approaching $0.000009. That is not much valye globally.

There are 300mln Americans. The American vlaue is $.00198.

You are confusing two kinds of value. The cash value of the right to buy a Kona slot is nothing to 99.9999% of the world population. But it seems that there are a few thousand people around the planet who see great value in being able to accomplish a lifelong goal by racing Kona. The cash value is nothing, but the personal value is proceless.

Just like family photographs. If someone's house is destroyed by fire and all the family photographs are lost the emotional value to that person is much higher than the actual value of the photographs.

Dave

I never said there was no demand for the spots, I said there was no market. Agreed that this is an artificial impediment created by WTC, much in the same way that sporting venues often prohibit resale of tickets on stadium grounds but I believe they are well in their right to do that.

There is much demand in the world for many things for which there is no market.

You are missing the point. The market is the opportunity to get the ticket. Hundreds of thousands of dollars are spent by folks looking to get a non-transferable entry to kona. The market (i.e., demand continues to grow) the slots remain constant.

Basically, it is an illegal lottery. In a similar case involving the registration of .biz names where people had the right (option) to purchase .biz names through a lottery federal district court ruled in favor of the plaintiff i.e., against the lottery.

If one is interested, here is their complaint. http://www.icann.org/...nd-cmplt-01aug01.pdf I am sure with some minor tweaks one could do the same for the Kona lottery.

Do you have links to the court judgment documents? The complaint you posted is not a federal lawsuit. It was filed in California Superior Court in Los Angeles County. What I've been able to find is that the court denied the application for preliminary injunction (i.e., did not find in favor of the plaintiff) and that the case settled, meaning no final judgment was entered ruling the ICAAN lottery to be illegal under California law.

EDIT TO ADD

Further research indicates that apparently the court first declined to issue the preliminary injunction and then later did, in fact issue it. Still haven't found the order issuing the injunction, but if California law on TROs and Prelim injunctions is similar to other states, the court still would not have found that the lottery was an illegal lottery, but merely that the plaintiff class was "likely to succeed at trial." Small distinction, I know.

---

-------------------------------------
Steve Perkins

Wrong again. The 3 month option to buy citi is worthless if the stock doesn't hit the strke price-worthless. The value is in the right to acquire.... The right to acquire a kona slot is worth a tremendous amount of money. What do you think they would make if they sold 100 tickets to acquire 20 slots (1 in 5 odds). My guess over a 1000 bucks a ticket easy.......

I don't think so. The market as I defined it is the opportunity to transfer the right to acquire the entry (the call option). That market does not exist. WTC is offering a one-time, non-transferable call option to acquire some other item at a fixed price. If any lottery winner next year put their right to buy an entry on eBay they would be subject to a fraud action, as no purchaser could actually use that right.

BTW, I won a lottery spot a few years back and that sucker ended up costing me about 6 large by the time all the dust settled! ;-)

I agree with you as to the value once you have acquired the right, its only a right to show up race day-no way to monetize the asset. What is regulated by the states are schemes designed to cause folks to pay for the chance of obtaining something of value. It could be a violin or non-transferable ticket to a sporting event. The money is being made and paid on the "chance".

Turns out, you were right.