Apmoss: great post! Thank you!

As an update: Got a little advice from a pro and changed up my form during this evening's swim. I'm now doing 50 meters in 47-48 seconds without going too hard. On a 100 meter swim I'm breathing every other stroke for almost 75 meters, then once every stroke. On my first 100 I gave too much effort and was able to complete it in 1 minute, 20 seconds...too fast. But what I noticed is what another poster identified: my fitness isn't where it should be. I need to work hard on that. Next tri is 6/15. Thanks for all the sage advice!

Something doesn't add up, unless you had really serious stroke flaws that instantaneously got fixed.


For comparison: in a 50m pool, a 400m swim as a warmup will take me around 7:00. As part of a set, I'll do a 400m in 6:30 or under. At the end of a ~1500m workout, I'll do an "all-out" 100m in...1:20.
No wetsuit involved.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Those are good numbers. I'm not you.

It's hard to say with any degree of certainty based on a brief post, but I think you'll discover that sprint is a distance that requires VO2 and anaerobic training to be prepared for race day. Your mile swim is probably in zone 2. The Olympic distance prep involves a lot of threshold work (z4) and 70.3 I do tempo pace (z3) in speed-focused sessions. The logic is that the speed training is adjusted in volume and intensity for the duration of the race. Training in zone 2 for months and trying to race zone 5 is going to hurt like crazy and probably cause you to blow the motor. Just my thoughts! Good luck out there and enjoy:)

Thanks Darkside. I thought about that, but in less sophisticated terms. It really hit me yesterday. I changed my form, stroke, kick, breathing, and slashed my times. But I also realized that even though I felt like if was gliding I was really exerting more effort, which is going to drain me much more quickly.. I have to train at that level.

How often do you train for the swim?

weekly there is usually a speed session, an endurance session, and either a recovery or tempo session depending on the phase. so three. dialing in the appropriate paces/HR takes time and (I will expose my type-A here) some retrospective analysis of performances. in the swimming discipline...I say get a very good coach that can get your form as tight as possible. You'll save a lot of exertion that way.

Argoman

Your numbers do not make sense so its a bit hard to give some pointers on wher you can fix things up

You can do 47-48 for a 50m and a 1:20 for a 100m. A 1:20 is actually faster than 47-48 for a 50. Is this all in the same pool, a meters pool or a yards pool?

And then you can only do 9 or 10 minutes in a full wetsuit for a 400m?

Are the times above with or without a wersuit?

Assuming these are not just your numbers you get when you are doing a full out sprint, and you are seriously dropping off from 1:20 per 100m to 2:30 per 100 when you go out to 400m, you just need to slow things down. Slow things down a lot.... Your pacing doesn't make any sense if those numbers are true.

Just as a rough comparison, you would probably expect someone to swim a hard 400m about 10 to 15 seconds per 100 slower than a hard 100m. So say your 50m is 45 seconds, your 100m is 1:35, you'd expect that the 400 would be around 7 minutes or so . Not as much of a drop off as what you've got.

The OP indicated that someone changed his stroke, and he instantly went from 2:15-30/100m for a 400 to 1:20 for a 100; that 47-48 was without working too hard, and the 1:20 was "going out too hard". Maybe he was carrying the wetsuit instead of wearing it in that 400?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I don't have anything constructive to add to what has already been said, but anecdotally whenever I try to convince my friends to race, since they can run and bike, and "swim", I never tell them what the race swim is like because I would have to generally sum it up as "chaos". No matter how I'm feeling on the day or how I did, I got scratched, kicked, or punched.

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Nutmeg State

Thanks Alex. So, I ride hard, can run, and I was doing at least 1600 yards in the pool twice a week. So how hard could a quick 400 meter swim be for my first Sprint, right? I really believed that I was going to leave the whole pack behind, no problem. And then I almost drowned....

I think I have it figured. I needed clear advice on how to swim correctly, vastly improve my fitness, and get a few sprints in. Thanks for everyone's advice!

 
Congrats on completing your first Sprint! Open water swimming can be tough. Try training in open water to get used to the conditions and practice sighting. Adding interval training can also boost your endurance. Keep it up, and good luck with your next race!

I have had the exhausted feeling in OWS come from some of the things already mentioned (i.e. swimming in a wetsuit that compressed on the chest which I wasn't used to, going out too hard a.k.a kicking too hard, etc.). One thing that hasn't been mentioned is altitude. I was training at sea leave then when out-of-state to do a race at 5800' asl. The altitude made it feel like I was sucking air through a straw with rocks in it. I few hacks I have been taught are 1) Don't kick hard. kicking takes a lot of oxygen. If I am in a wet suit I don't need the kick to maintain good body position so I can almost not kick at all. That really extends the oxygen and keeps me from feeling exhausted. 2) breath on every stroke. In the pool and OWS swim training I breath bi-laterally, but on race day I breath on every stroke until my heart rate, pacing, and breathing are in a rhythm. If it feels like breathing every stroke is too much after 100m I will got to bilateral breathing but often have to go back to every stroke breathing after doing bi0lateral for a while I just need more oxygen are race pace that I do in training. 3) If I start to feel exhausted, slow down and just focus on maintaining good form. That will get you to the end of the swim in better shape for a fast race than trying to maintain a certain effort or to mussel your way through it.

Thanks Curtis. I never thought of the altitude level. I train in an area that is BELOW sea level. The swim took place at 1500 feet above. maybe that had an effect. But I think what is really came down to is what another member advised: my fitness level was not up to par. He/she is correct. I still think the"open water" aspect had something to do with how difficult it was for me, but fitness was the overriding issue. I've since changed the way I swim, what I train, how long and often I train. And the difference in my swim fitness just a few weeks has been dramatic. Where I was only able to swim mostly breathing with every stroke just last month. Now I easily can breath every other stroke, as long as I maintain a stable pace. Thanks for all your advice!

New-ish Triathlete who started the sport last year(Swim is the obvious weakest of the 3) and also ran into something similar this past weekend. I don't have a lot of opportunity for open water swims, so almost all of my swimming is in a pool. My pool sessions are anywhere from 1500-2500M 1-2x a week and I average pretty reliably 2:00/100M, comfortbale breathing both ways every 3rd stroke. In the past I've swam either without a wetsuit or had borrowed a friends, so I finally took the plunge and bought a Roka. Based on height and weight I'm a Medium with 1-2" and/or 10 lbs until the next size up. 400M into an 800M swim and I was so out of breath. From the start I intentionally told myself to slow down but just couldnt get myself in a rhythm. Garmin shows my track as being almost perfectly straight for the course and had me at 1:50/100 which maybe makes sense given the wetsuit. Swim was in a perfectly calm lake.

Long story short, what might I be missing? I only had 1 chance to wear it prior to help break it in but the suit felt VERY tight around my chest, is it just breaking it in? Is it the breath at the end of each 25M in a pool since I dont flip turn? how do i know if the sizing is just plain wrong? I even tried flushing it by pulling the neck a couple times to let water in to see if that helps loosen it up.

Have set my goal for a 70.3 by the end of the year and the swim is the only thing I have any concern about.

A wetsuit should not be "very tight" around the chest if it is fit correctly. That is either due to the wrong size, or it is an inexpensive suit that is inflexible. The cheaper suits are generally less flexible than the more expensive suits. There is a big difference in flex and fit between the bottom of the line and top of the line ROKA Maverick suits. Flushing water does nothing but negate the purpose of a wetsuit.

A large percentage of triathletes do open turns in the pool and most do just fine - I doubt that is your problem. 1500 to 2500 meters twice a week is on the low end of swim training for a newbie. I'm curious how you are breaking that distance up, but I would bet that the distance in your sets is too long, and your break between sets is too long. The trick is to push yourself right to the edge of poor form, but never past. For most that means lots of 25 and 50, with some 100's in there.

In the pool, in training, I breath every 3rd stroke like you. In a race, either in the pool or OW, I breath every other stroke to the same side. There is no reason to restrict your breathing in a race. If you can breath every 3rd stroke (alternating sides) than you can switch sides if need be in a race. In an OW race I switch breathing sides several times, but I still breath every other stroke.

Finally, it sounds like you bought your suit online. Lots of people do that and get away with it, for many it is their only choice due to where they live, but it is risky. Wetsuit fit varies between brands and models within brands. Keep in mind that a wetsuit that is too tight will cause the problems you are describing. A wetsuit that too big will exchange water and negate the thermal protection and cause extra drag (if it is really too big). I tell people to go bigger if in doubt, since most wetsuit legal races shouldn't be to start with - most could swim fine without the suit, but think they need it as a crutch. In my old age I have been forgoing the suit because I just don't need the hassle. In an Olympic distance race (1500 m) the 30 to 45 seconds I loose (2 to 3 seconds a 100) is a wash with trying to get the damn thing off. I'm just not as flexible or patient as I used to be.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

Thanks for the thorough response. The Suit I have is a Roka Maverick Pro II, so kind of middle tier suit I guess? Noted on the change in breathing to every 2 for OW. For training I have a plan from online, and my sets are generally 50 100, maybe 250 or 300 on the higher end. Im trying to work in more time in the pool, but.... life jsut hasnt been lending itself to having the time.

Im leaning toward the wetsuit is just too small. I have surfed for a couple years before getting into Tri and swimming. Granted they're a couple different brands but my surf wetsuits are also all Medium, thats why I felt so confident that a M was it. It sounds like a MT or M/L might be the answer

The good news is a Roka Maverick Pro II in medium will resell easily. That wetsuit and that size is very popular. I would do medium large, not medium tall. If the length of the sleeves and legs were the problem you would not have tightness in the chest area.

Another option, that I don't recommend, is to go sleeveless. They have much less material in the chest area, and much freer motion in the shoulders and arms, but you give up a lot of what makes a wetsuit faster (and warmer).

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"