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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
kaze wrote:
I just tried to find out what you meant by tririg nose cones. Do you mind sharing a link? I couldn't find it on their website.


This is the TriRig product: https://tririg.com/...cts/delta-aero-cover

There are other bikes that have this type of brake cover as part of the original design though. Most notably several (all except the newest?) versions of the Trek Speed Concept.

Thanks for sharing! That also looks very similar to the old speedmax or felt (and others ofc) that covered the rim brakes like that. Wow, what a tricky call to make if that is illegal or not.
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [kaze] [ In reply to ]
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kaze wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
kaze wrote:
I just tried to find out what you meant by tririg nose cones. Do you mind sharing a link? I couldn't find it on their website.


This is the TriRig product: https://tririg.com/...cts/delta-aero-cover

There are other bikes that have this type of brake cover as part of the original design though. Most notably several (all except the newest?) versions of the Trek Speed Concept.


Thanks for sharing! That also looks very similar to the old speedmax or felt (and others ofc) that covered the rim brakes like that. Wow, what a tricky call to make if that is illegal or not.

Didn't realize Felt and Canyon had these, but Dimond and Cube also used a cover in this fashion. You could almost claim conspiracy to force people holding their rim brake bikes to upgrade to disc if all these covers are suddenly illegal.

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [kaze] [ In reply to ]
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Yep - read that one also. The "we don't believe" is not confidence inducing IMO.

For those not receiving the EZ gains e-mails...this is what we are referring to (around the chainring covers:
"Both the chainring cover and the front derailleur guard have been used many times at multiple Ironman races. The chainring cover has even been used by professional athletes at the 2023 Ironman World Championships. This was while the existing rule was in place. We don't believe the changes to the rules will make a difference to this."

The disc wheel cover excerpt from the newsletter,

"On March 13th we received written confirmation from Global Operations, Rules and Special Projects at the IRONMAN Group that IRONMAN permits wheel covers in all IRONMAN events.

Wheel covers are also explicitly defined in the 2024 competition rules as being allowed: "section 5.02 EQUIPMENT (a) Wheels (i) The front wheel must be of spoke construction (aero rim with spokes is permitted) and must not be solid; (DSQ) (ii) The rear wheel may be either spoke or solid construction (disc wheel). Wheel covers are permitted only on the rear wheel. For reasons of safety, solid (disc) rear wheels are prohibited at the IRONMAN World Championship"

IG: NCGregory8778
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [rplong] [ In reply to ]
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I was just about to buy a delta cover. Rule 5.03 seems to take direct aim at tririg.
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [kaze] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I'm still riding a 2012 nosecone Shiv. I didn't modify anything. These rules will need to be clarified.
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Same with P5-6 with nose and brake cover fairings. When I raced SCCA the rules in the GCR stated - “Unless installed as original factory equipmentâ€â€¦. If you had a part number you were good.
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [ModelAmerican] [ In reply to ]
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ModelAmerican wrote:
I was just about to buy a delta cover. Rule 5.03 seems to take direct aim at tririg.
I've asked for a thumbs up or down from Jimmy R on the delta cover. Will keep this thread posted.

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [scca_ita] [ In reply to ]
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What really stings is that nosecone saves maybe 1 minute? And I'm a 6 hour IM rider. Really am not a fan of ripping apart the cockpit and redoing everything for some dumb rule that may see me turned away at bike check-in unexpectedly.
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [Savage8778] [ In reply to ]
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Actually, you might have point. Reading the quote again in your posting makes we wonder. If they received written confirmation for the disc covers, I would be surprised if they did not request the same approval of their crank covers, etc.

Playing the "conspiracy" game a bit more. What if in the future brands have to pay for a "approved by Ironman" sticker. Otherwise it is ruled illegal. Could be the ultimate money grab. And I hope I am not giving anyone ideas here (and if I did, please pay me royalties).
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [Savage8778] [ In reply to ]
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Savage8778 wrote:
Wheel covers are also explicitly defined in the 2024 competition rules as being allowed: "section 5.02 EQUIPMENT (a) Wheels (i) The front wheel must be of spoke construction (aero rim with spokes is permitted) and must not be solid; (DSQ) (ii) The rear wheel may be either spoke or solid construction (disc wheel). Wheel covers are permitted only on the rear wheel. For reasons of safety, solid (disc) rear wheels are prohibited at the IRONMAN World Championship"

Reading this part makes it sound like a cover would be allowed at the WC while only solid rear diacs are prohibited.
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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Email from Ironman pro services possibly clarifying. The rule also appears to have an extra sentence that clarifies a lot. Although it doesn't align with WTC rules to the same degree as the original rule.

Quote:
5.03 (b):
2023 Language: Fairings are prohibited. Any device added or blended into the structure
that may decrease, or that has the eƯect of decreasing, resistance to air penetration, or
that may artificially accelerate propulsion, such as a protective screen, fuselage form
fairing or the like, is prohibited; (DSQ)
2024 Language: Protective screens, fuselages, fairings, or any other devices or materials
(including duct tape) added or blended into the structure with the intent to reduce (or
having the eƯect of reducing) resistance to air penetration are prohibited. Aerodynamic
assemblies and protuberances on the head tube or elsewhere are prohibited. Provided that
the use of adhesive tape (including duct tape) does not fundamentally alter or enlarge the
general shape of the structure, adhesive tape may be aƯixed to the bike (e.g., to cover valve
cutout of the rear disc wheel, to cover bolts access, etc.); (DSQ)
Reason for change: No penalty change. Rule amended to be consistent with existing
World Triathlon rules. Additional verbiage added to provide further clarity around use of
adhesive tape.
For Reference, World Triathlon rule states: “Fairings are prohibited. Any device, added or
blended into the structure, that is destined to decrease, or which has the eƯect of
decreasing, resistance to air penetration or artificially to accelerate propulsion, such as a
protective screen, fuselage form fairing or the like, shall be prohibited




It seems like all of the changes made are solely about duct tape? Not sure why the protuberance bit was added then. There is also no mention of duct tape fairing in World Triathlon rules.

There
Last edited by: mathematics: Mar 15, 24 5:24
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [mathematics] [ In reply to ]
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So, If I want to add a system to hold two bottles on the front and rise it a bit on my Plasma 5, its OK as long as I don't use tape ?
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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I never read it that way before, but I can see where you got that. Whether a full structural disc like the Super 9 or a disc cover, the "full" is specific to the covering/depth of the wheel.

I do find it interesting though that they don't call out Kona, as the Men's WC in Nice allowed them. Such odd times - take me back to pre-2017 triathlon.

IG: NCGregory8778
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [mathematics] [ In reply to ]
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mathematics wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Ideally, swim follows FINA rules,bike UCI, run WA.

I've seen triathletes show up to time trials to be told their bike is not legal. For growth of all sport, the ability to cross over should be with our question

You'd have to roll it out over many years. Too many non-UCI bikes in use at the moment.

It's also not in the interest of IM to go to UCI rules. People finding out you can do a TT for $40 is a net negative to their $1000 TTs.

Go after pros first, most get free bikes. If you can lower barrier of entry for amatures, that is more profit overall for ironman rather than targeting the few rich who can afford tri specific equipment
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [kaze] [ In reply to ]
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As much as I hate the fact that my frozen hydration bladder down the front of the race suit is being taken away. I understand. If at some point 50% of the athletes are racing around with bottles or whatever down the front of their chest there's actually a real safety issue. Either from athletes messing with gear inside their suit while riding or from getting in an accident and potentially having hard plastic or rock hard ice crush your chest. The concerns over it looking silly or benefiting aero dynamically are outrageous when you consider the reality that TT bars are inherently less stable than regular drop bars.

It's a shame though.
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [Lurker4] [ In reply to ]
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I have read this thread and may have missed it but does this prohibit aerojacket disc covers?
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [Calvin386] [ In reply to ]
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Calvin386 wrote:
I have read this thread and may have missed it but does this prohibit aerojacket disc covers?

No

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
Calvin386 wrote:
I have read this thread and may have missed it but does this prohibit aerojacket disc covers?


No

well, probably not.
technically it does prohibit any additional equipment that reduces aero drag which includes disc covers but in practice it is unlikely they will apply the rule that way
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
kaze wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
kaze wrote:
I just tried to find out what you meant by tririg nose cones. Do you mind sharing a link? I couldn't find it on their website.


This is the TriRig product: https://tririg.com/...cts/delta-aero-cover

There are other bikes that have this type of brake cover as part of the original design though. Most notably several (all except the newest?) versions of the Trek Speed Concept.


Thanks for sharing! That also looks very similar to the old speedmax or felt (and others ofc) that covered the rim brakes like that. Wow, what a tricky call to make if that is illegal or not.


Didn't realize Felt and Canyon had these, but Dimond and Cube also used a cover in this fashion. You could almost claim conspiracy to force people holding their rim brake bikes to upgrade to disc if all these covers are suddenly illegal.

I don't think it's just rim brake models. .
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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So I can no longer use electrical tape to keep my front brake cover in place on my premier bike and the top of my rear storage box? Wow. Sounds like a lot of stupid policing
Last edited by: Bigkat34: Mar 16, 24 12:17
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [Bigkat34] [ In reply to ]
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"Provided that
the use of adhesive tape (including duct tape) does not fundamentally alter or enlarge the
general shape of the structure, adhesive tape may be afixed to the bike (e.g., to cover valve
cutout of the rear disc wheel, to cover bolts access, etc.)"

So in your case then yes to the top of the storage box. And as the cover is OE then I believe that is also legit.
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [kaze] [ In reply to ]
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Thank god for this and hope they clarify it’s a uniform ban on fairings. It’s not going to work if rich kids can still buy speed with an ‘official design’ bike setup that’s designed to flout the rules by creating structural dependency on cones & covers, while others can’t DIY with a little tape
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [emceemanners] [ In reply to ]
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Replying to the thread generally, but we had Jimmy from IM on the podcast to talk about this -- https://www.slowtwitch.com/...Riccitello_8921.html

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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Just replying to let you know that I listened to it. Thoughts: 1. Jimmy doesn't make a great spokesman for defending the rules changes. 2. There is an element of mild disdain for the general ST community coming from the hosts. It might not be fair for me to say that as I'm not bringing receipts to this conversation. That was just the impression I felt from the interview, but it's not like I took notes.

I wish there was a bit of pushback on the bottle or bladder issue from a functionality standpoint. It's directly acknowledged in the rules (or at least was) that fairing shaped hydration systems were ok. Once the bottle gets placed on the rider and they become the fairing, somehow it's not ok. That's pretty glaring. Fairing on helmet that has nothing to do with safety? OK! Fairing on wheel that has nothing to do with safety? OK! Bizarre aerodynamic improvement if you drink from a camelbak down your jersey? HELL NO, that's a fairing!

I also had the impression that Ironman presents itself as being deferential to world triathlon and their rules and just politely requests for adaptations to their races. That at least was not how I perceived the relationship, but that's how Jimmy came across to me at least.

And in that case, it seems like WT was planning to kill the bottle thing next year across the board anyway, and IM just jumped the gun and got it out of the way this year.
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Re: Ironman Competition Rules 2024 - no more aero gains? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
ModelAmerican wrote:
I was just about to buy a delta cover. Rule 5.03 seems to take direct aim at tririg.

I've asked for a thumbs up or down from Jimmy R on the delta cover. Will keep this thread posted.

Did you receive a reply?
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