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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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Good stretching and warm ups. As an old, I used to do some static stretches that hyperextended my shoulders in a few directions and hopped in. Basic for many of you, I am sure, but this shift made a world of difference for me. Less shoulder pain and more consistent visits to the pool.

YMMV, but I find that a routine like this is helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/...op&v=A01-34izziw
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [apmoss] [ In reply to ]
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Iā€™m a high school swim coach. My kids range in ability from extremely slow to future d1 swimmers.

I live by a simple theory in coaching that is always written on our white board.

Rule #1 to swimming fast - donā€™t do the things that slow you down.

All the other stuff is extra. If you just avoid things that slow you down youā€™re gonna do just fine.
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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At age 66 I had my fastest Ironman swim: 46 minutes. My tip: choose a downstream wetsuit race :)
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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MasteringFlow wrote:
michael Hatch wrote:
Every late (adult) swimmer has one problem.
Lack of swim specific muscle.
Get some.


Is there anything you'd suggest in particular beyond swimming?

One of the challenges is that there is nothing else in life like swimming, so if you're not swimming, you're not really using your body in a way that's going to condition the body to do so. While certain activities can help the process, you have to be in the water.

I've never met a body builder that was a good competitive swimmer (although they might exist) and I have never met a good competitive swimmer that didn't do dryland training. Whether that's weights or body weight exercise. Any late starter should do as much of that as pool time. as far as I'm concerned. I don't actually like swimming anymore, so last year all my training was dryland, still swam the same time.

Most late learners lack flexibility, watch any Lionel swimming video, man's as flexible as plank. So get a towel and start stretching is a good option.

All good swimmers can "lat slap". So build some lats and pecs and abs, with swim stroke mimicry using weights or stretch cords. Did a lot of pushups and pullups back then (two grips).

A "nasty" wet version is to do 25m fly reps until your arms fall off. Repeat. At least once a week.

One last one is go play water polo. That's an amazing tool and anyone who does is never nervous in a mass start again.

Do any or all.

The tricky part is doing all that while doing the other ten (or more) hours of running and riding those other experts want you to do.
I am nearly always losing to someone who swims slower than me....:0)

But I do know one dualthlete who is now an excellent swimmer...beats me in all three.
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [klorene] [ In reply to ]
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klorene wrote:
Iā€™m a high school swim coach. My kids range in ability from extremely slow to future d1 swimmers.

I live by a simple theory in coaching that is always written on our white board.

Rule #1 to swimming fast - donā€™t do the things that slow you down.

All the other stuff is extra. If you just avoid things that slow you down youā€™re gonna do just fine.

What are the biggest issues you see that slow people down, that you spend the most time working on?

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch wrote:

I've never met a body builder that was a good competitive swimmer (although they might exist) and I have never met a good competitive swimmer that didn't do dryland training. Whether that's weights or body weight exercise. Any late starter should do as much of that as pool time. as far as I'm concerned. I don't actually like swimming anymore, so last year all my training was dryland, still swam the same time.

Most late learners lack flexibility, watch any Lionel swimming video, man's as flexible as plank. So get a towel and start stretching is a good option.

All good swimmers can "lat slap". So build some lats and pecs and abs, with swim stroke mimicry using weights or stretch cords. Did a lot of pushups and pullups back then (two grips).

A "nasty" wet version is to do 25m fly reps until your arms fall off. Repeat. At least once a week.

One last one is go play water polo. That's an amazing tool and anyone who does is never nervous in a mass start again.

Do any or all.

The tricky part is doing all that while doing the other ten (or more) hours of running and riding those other experts want you to do.
I am nearly always losing to someone who swims slower than me....:0)

But I do know one dualthlete who is now an excellent swimmer...beats me in all three.

Thanks!

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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From 6 year olds to 18 year olds my common theme is things from the shoulders up. Just focusing on free for here.
Head position too high or low
The way the hands enter the water
The reach (or lack thereof)
Breathing technique
Dropping elbow.

All of these set up the path of your actual stroke so doing them wrong are a combo of slowing you down thru resistance (for example head too high drops your hips causing your body to not be prone) and making your pull not as effective.
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:



wilp wrote:
Is there any competitive swimmer who swims less than 15hours/week...?
Most adult who want to improve their swimming abilities forget that they try to compare themselves with other adults who've got way more swimming mileage under their belt than them....funny enough, they wouldn't dare compare themselves with basketball or football varsity players (let alone pros), so why make the comparison with former competitive swimmers...??

Get 10 000 hours in the pool, and then we talk about if you're made for swimming or not...


I actually think the bigger limiter is that people forget or ignore the fact that ex-competitive swimmers who swam from youth are literally the most talented of the kids for swimming. You don't stick with swimming going every morning for years, dragging your parents, when you're not naturally good, if not exceptionally good, at it.

Adult triathletes are typically the rest of that less-talented pack. There are definitely some who would have been in that fast kid group, and guess what - they improve very quickly as an adult. But most of us are not in that group.

You also don't need 10000 hours or close to that to realize you're not that talented. You can tell pretty quickly by how much you improve compared ot the typical AG triathlete doing similar volume training, even if it's low. If you're swimming like 4 hrs a week for 2 years and still dead MOP for a triathlete swim split, you're unlikely going to be beating the ex-competitive (fast) swimmers even at 8 hrs a week or even 10 hrs a week of training, unless that ex-comp swimmer literally stops swimming completely for years.

This is the real dirty secret behind swimming 'fast', like as fast as true competitive swimmers, even youth swimmers. And all triathlon coaches, even the elite ones know this - it's well known to them that swim improvement is the hardest thing for their pro-elites to get unless they came with it already.

Luckily for us non pro-elites though, FOP swimming (let's just say top 15%) at the AG level isn't a particularly high bar, and probably within the reach of a very hardworking typical AG talent triathlete who just does a ton of training. But that 'FOP' AGer will get beaten by a huge margin by the 'real' swimmers, even of those guys/gals are swimming a mere 7k per week. My n=1 analogy for running, as that you can bust your tail and get down to an 19:00 5k but the naturally fast guy will be running 15:00 with similar training, or 17:00 with low-level training. And yes, I know swimming requires technique and running doesn't blah blah blah - I'm assuming you can swim decently well for the analogy, not a raw beginner with giant stroke errors who will improve quickly once those are fixed.

The part you mentioned in bold is bang on.

As adult triathletes, on the swim leg, we end up comparing ourselves with the ex youth swimmers. By definition these are the best of the youth swim crowd.

If we also compare ourselves in running with the high school cross country runners, most triathletes will suck IF the high school cross country runners can just lace on running shoes and still run fast. Water allows an ex swimmer to roll out of bed (literally) and swim fast. You can't do that with running with a big layoff, so many adult onset triathletes will beat the ex high school runner (I fall into the latter group....most people who have been running since they were 14 are broken by 35, lucky to be running at 50, probably swear off running by 60 even if we want to....the lifetime of injuries still catch up). So adult onset triathlete runners inherently don't end up in a comparison with high school runners, but AOS triathlete swimmers are in a comparison with high school swimmers all the time.

Oh, and running DOES require technique (at least running fast). Its just naturally wired into us from when we are babies and learning to walk, we just don't realize we have been evolving our running technique....some of it is natural, some of it is learned (learned in the sense our brains adapt to run with our changing bodies as we grow, and then at some point, we have roughly evolved our technique when we stop growing and our bodies have taken their final form....the fat version of us, will still try to run with the gait as the skinny 15 year old version of us, just do it badly)
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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My biggest tip as a coach and an athlete- Donā€™t stop your education at your coach. Itā€™s impossible for me to be with athletes 24/7, so while you should use your coach as much as you can for information, thereā€™s so many excellent websites, YouTubeā€™s, etc to educate yourself on proper form, theory, balance, drills, etc that will help you understand how to move through the water. When you begin understanding how to move through the water (ā€œFeelā€ the water) youā€™ll catch yourself doing simple, but major things right and wrong.

Also worth noting, swim as much as you can without damaging your bike and run. What I mean- With indoor training increasing on the bike/run due to accessibility, safety, time of year, limited swimming times available, and so on, swimming is the hardest one to get to for most. 10 minutes to the gym, 5 to dress, hour or so swim, 5 dress, 10 back home. Thereā€™s a natural intersection where athletes start to either fail swimming or fail to get in the bike/run. Everyoneā€™s a bit different here and that balance changes as your motivation does, so youā€™ve got to be self reflective on where that intersection is. If youā€™re swimming 6 times a week, but your bike and run go down to 1-2, I think we can all agree thatā€™s a bad balance for a successful year ahead (unless youā€™re in a block intentionally made for that strategy of course) This is a great time of year (for most, April is coming soon) to really focus on that weakness, which tends to be swimming for most. I just did a 2 week block of 5-6 times a week after doing 2-3 times for awhile and then 3-4 building the base up.

The gains youā€™ll see through consistency, educating yourself, making sure youā€™re sustainably approaching swimming gains, and communicating well with your coach/support/training buddy/etc will no doubt have you swimming better in no time.

Some extras:
- Masters with a good coach
- hand entry
- head position
- tempo/cadence
- Proper elbow position

___________________________________________________________

"A wise man once told me......God doesn't call the equipped, he equips the called."
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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Touch water often
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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Pull buoys are a great tool, but don't use them as a crutch to help you body position.

Great things never come from comfort zones.
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [Sam M.] [ In reply to ]
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Very well put post.
I have self taught/ learned and trained with slow, steady gains. You tube videos, tips on this forum and on deck tips from a few knowledgeable on deck life guards. Also my bible ( Swim Speed Secrets ) helped with initial improvements and I still refer to it. Except this year as I forgot to bring it with us this year to La Quinta California.
When I started tris in late ā€˜80s to early 90s I was pretty consistent at 28 to 30 minute 1500 m ( Olympic distance ). Just powered through the swim as best possible.
Back in triathlon in 2019 at 67, managed a 33 minute half Ironman swim. Two years later, 34 minutes. An age thing, right? This past summer PTO Canada was 36 minutes for 2000 M.
This winter in the pool my times are slowly improving as I have been doing a lot more shorter ( 50s and 100s) while watching and working on specific techniques and tips.
Anything over about 500 yd/m and I lose track of lap count when I do a long test swim so not sure exactly where I am at.
Another note: I gave up ever doing a flip turnsā€¦..I Just get dizzyā€¦.
Just keep working, try things out to see how it works and always strive to improve. Compete to slay the old age sloth!
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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LEARN TO FLOAT! Face down, 11 position (arms extended). When you learn how to employee your core muscles properly to remain high in the water, everything is easier, and faster! Reducing drag is far more important in swimming than cycling or running :-)
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [klorene] [ In reply to ]
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klorene wrote:
From 6 year olds to 18 year olds my common theme is things from the shoulders up. Just focusing on free for here.
Head position too high or low
The way the hands enter the water
The reach (or lack thereof)
Breathing technique
Dropping elbow.

All of these set up the path of your actual stroke so doing them wrong are a combo of slowing you down thru resistance (for example head too high drops your hips causing your body to not be prone) and making your pull not as effective.

Thanks. Good stuff.

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [IntenseOne] [ In reply to ]
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IntenseOne wrote:
LEARN TO FLOAT! Face down, 11 position (arms extended). When you learn how to employee your core muscles properly to remain high in the water, everything is easier, and faster! Reducing drag is far more important in swimming than cycling or running :-)

Very underrated, especially for those without a swimming background.

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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MasteringFlow wrote:
IntenseOne wrote:
LEARN TO FLOAT! Face down, 11 position (arms extended). When you learn how to employee your core muscles properly to remain high in the water, everything is easier, and faster! Reducing drag is far more important in swimming than cycling or running :-)


Very underrated, especially for those without a swimming background.

Seems so simple, yet seems to be impossible for me to face down float my legs, torso - no problem, legs sink.

Is SWOLF a useful metric? If so, what are good, great & need's work targets for 25 & 50y pools?
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [mdana87] [ In reply to ]
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mdana87 wrote:

Seems so simple, yet seems to be impossible for me to face down float my legs, torso - no problem, legs sink.

Is SWOLF a useful metric? If so, what are good, great & need's work targets for 25 & 50y pools?

Don't worry about being completely flat. It's learning how to get slightly better that can teach you about maintaining position.

I've worked with VERY fast swimmers that can't do it.

Start with an exercise like this. You should be able to float.

https://www.youtube.com/...x61BKXeA&index=3

Then work on extending your arms and legs while maintaining control. Practice that and aim to improve.

An easier floating version is something like this.

https://www.youtube.com/...61BKXeA&index=24

SWOLF is just your time per lap + your stroke count. Generally speaking, you want lower numbers for both, so yes it's useful. Rather than focusing on a particular target, focusing on swimming faster and taking fewer strokes and the numbers will improve. You can improve the number by swimming faster, taking fewer strokes, or both.

Hope that helps.

Andrew

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you sir.

Also, I've really appreciated your barrage of recent updates to your YouTube channel. My local pool is weird about video. Once I get that sorted, I'll be in touch directly one of these days. :)
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [Vertebrae6395] [ In reply to ]
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Vertebrae6395 wrote:
STRINATION wrote:
Swim everyday.

Very much this. Swim as much as you possibly can.


...and stop going so slow and hanging onto the wall for a minute between sets.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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This is for me:

1. go to pool
2. actually swim
3. do it again at least one more time
4. this year, month, week.
5. stop thinking about it so much, just swim
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [mdana87] [ In reply to ]
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mdana87 wrote:
Thank you sir.

Also, I've really appreciated your barrage of recent updates to your YouTube channel. My local pool is weird about video. Once I get that sorted, I'll be in touch directly one of these days. :)

You are welcome.

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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Swim specific gym work is not a thing. It won't help. Swim more.

#######
My Blog
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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I am a disaster of a swimmerā€¦but a few things Iā€™ve greatly valued:

-Aftershokz. Listening to music when swimming is a game changer.

-Ear plugs. Without them, I breathe every stroke on my left. With them, they have made bilateral breathing effortless for me. Itā€™s come in very useful to reduce single-side fatigue and when swimming in open water due to wind and waves. I have never swam without them since the first day I tried them over a year ago.

-Iā€™ve learned to reach out as far as I can when swimming in the pool lately. I average about 15.0-15.5 strokes/length of the pool (Iā€™m short), so Iā€™ve been working on reducing that number.

-Doing interval work in the pool helps to ensure my form isnā€™t going to hell. I used to do sets of 500 in the pool or would just swim for 3,000-5,000 yards straight with no break. Given the fact that Iā€™m kind of a terrible swimmer, Iā€™ve learned the negative impact that swimming for that long with no rest has on my form. Iā€™ve been doing lots of sets of 50ā€™s-250ā€™s in the pool this winter in an effort to maintain some semblance of a decent form.
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [MasteringFlow] [ In reply to ]
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One thing?

Short a water
Get professional help

Long detailed answer
Buy a $19 tripod from Amazon

Set it up at the end of the pool

Video yourself

Have it analyzed by a swim coach

Have them give you a swim program

This gave me better results in 4 weeks. Compared to 40 years of swimming with masters groups and analyzing my own technique.
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Re: Your Top Swimming Tip [Xavier500] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier500 wrote:
I am a disaster of a swimmerā€¦but a few things Iā€™ve greatly valued:

-Aftershokz. Listening to music when swimming is a game changer.

-Ear plugs. Without them, I breathe every stroke on my left. With them, they have made bilateral breathing effortless for me. Itā€™s come in very useful to reduce single-side fatigue and when swimming in open water due to wind and waves. I have never swam without them since the first day I tried them over a year ago.

-Iā€™ve learned to reach out as far as I can when swimming in the pool lately. I average about 15.0-15.5 strokes/length of the pool (Iā€™m short), so Iā€™ve been working on reducing that number.

-Doing interval work in the pool helps to ensure my form isnā€™t going to hell. I used to do sets of 500 in the pool or would just swim for 3,000-5,000 yards straight with no break. Given the fact that Iā€™m kind of a terrible swimmer, Iā€™ve learned the negative impact that swimming for that long with no rest has on my form. Iā€™ve been doing lots of sets of 50ā€™s-250ā€™s in the pool this winter in an effort to maintain some semblance of a decent form.

Without the ear plugs, did your breathing pattern determine which ear you got water in?

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today
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